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Maryland Senate Bill 877 - Our state attempting to require Master Electrician License to perform any work related to electrical work, including low voltage
This thread has 36 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:13
3PedalMINI
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On February 13, 2014 at 21:05, Hasbeen said...
Ughh...You absolutely wear me out with your tirades about the Unions when you know absolutely nothing about them except what Fox News tells you.  But you still rant about them every chance you get.   In all of your 20'ish years, you've learned so much about unions.

Ya know who I bet wishes they had a good union right about now?  The Low Voltage guys in Maryland.  That's who.
 

Ugghh, you and all the democrats wear me out constantly assuming us right wings get all of our info off of fox and all of our info is from there. Even Obama sat there during is oreily interview blaming fox for everything.

Just an FYI man, I do understand unions and contrary to what you believe that i only know about them from fox ive dealt with them growing up my entire 24 years of life. My dad works for BOEING and is constantly affected by the tirades of the union debacles in washington state and the machinest union. even though he is on the defense engineering side he still gets affected by them directly sometimes and other times indirectly.

My uncle is in the electricians union, my now ex best friend's dad was in the teamsters union. My grandfather was in the UAW...Unions run deep in my family. they have witnessed the pendulum swing to far to the unions and they hate it, yet they cannot do a single thing about it.

Guess what, they were also "strongly urged" to vote for obama. To the point where the local teamsters beat a guy nearly to death when they found out he was going to vote for McCain in 08. You hear shit like this all the time. The "union meetings" are nothing more then a brainwashing event (my grandfathers words that was a long time democrat and always voted left until 2012)
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 17 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:26
Hasbeen
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So you must be referring to the way the Unions really stuck it to Boeing in this article.  You know, the part where they gave up their pensions in exchange for a 401k plan so they could keep their jobs.

Of course Union members were "strongly urged" to vote for Obama.  Obama has their best interests in mind, and as a union, they tend to vote together, hence the term "union".

Why would a union member vote for a person who wants to get rid of unions?  It don't make no damn sense.




[Link: cnn.com]
Post 18 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:36
Bonavox
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On February 13, 2014 at 22:26, Hasbeen said...
So you must be referring to the way the Unions really stuck it to Boeing in this article.  You know, the part where they gave up their pensions in exchange for a 401k plan so they could keep their jobs.

[Link: cnn.com]

Who would want a 401k over a pension???? 401K's are over-rated and not a great long term investment.

If I could do it over, I'd get a government or military job when I was Brendon's age, they have it made, pension and healthcare.

Go watch the Dateline special on 401k's done last year, opens your eyes on investing and retirements.
Bill's Electric & Home Theater & Plumbing & Automation & Small Engine Repair, and Animal Removal Services......did I mention we do remotes also?
Post 19 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:42
highfigh
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On February 13, 2014 at 21:05, Hasbeen said...
Ughh...You absolutely wear me out with your tirades about the Unions when you know absolutely nothing about them except what Fox News tells you.  But you still rant about them every chance you get.   In all of your 20'ish years, you've learned so much about unions.

Ya know who I bet wishes they had a good union right about now?  The Low Voltage guys in Maryland.  That's who.
 

What is your opinion of a union that forces the employer to deduct dues, even from the checks of people who don't want to be in the union?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 20 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:44
Hasbeen
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You wouldn't want a 401k over a pension.  But as Brendan has stated on numerous occasions...The unions are breaking the companies backs.

I was showing that Boeings union, (the one that Brendan refers to as the worst) actually gave up their pensions so they could come to work every day.

The fact of the matter is, the companies are breaking the unions.

Disappearing unions = Disappearing Middle class.




 
Post 21 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:58
Hasbeen
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On February 13, 2014 at 22:42, highfigh said...
What is your opinion of a union that forces the employer to deduct dues, even from the checks of people who don't want to be in the union?

This is what all of you "Non-Union" people do.  You extract one stupid story that you heard about a guy that you don't know, from a state that you've never been to, and circumstances that aren't clear to you.

That's not what the conversation is about.  The conversation is about Brendan saying that Unions are awful.

But to answer you specific question.  That employee is dumb. Here's why they're dumb.  Because if they bothered to care or knew anything, they'd know that they can opt out of supporting the union.  But instead, they simply cry about it to you.  Here's the kicker, they still get all of the benefits of being in the union, and they only have to pay a small paper work fee monthly.

Here's the rules:

Whether they know it or not, employees in a unionized workplace have a choice to make: they can join and support the labor union that represents their bargaining unit, or they can choose to refrain from joining and supporting the union.(2) In a diverse society such as ours, it is hardly surprising that individual employees' opinions frequently differ from those of the labor union officials charged with representing their interests, and that many employees will not want to join the union or support it.
Unfortunately, most employees do not know or clearly understand their choices and legal alternatives vis-a-vis the union. On the one hand, it is common knowledge that employees have the right to join and assist unions. Less well known, however, is employees' right to refrain from supporting the union. This "right to refrain" includes: a) the right to refrain from joining the union in the first place;(3) b) the right to resign from union membership at any time, and thereby escape any post-resignation internal union fines or discipline;(4) and c) the right to stop paying full union dues and instead pay only a reduced "financial core fee" which excludes the union's political and non-collective bargaining expenditures.(5) Unfortunately, many employees are misled into believing, either tacitly or through outright misrepresentations, that they are required as a condition of employment to join the union and pay full dues as a condition of employment.(6)



 
Post 22 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 22:59
highfigh
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On February 13, 2014 at 22:26, Hasbeen said...
So you must be referring to the way the Unions really stuck it to Boeing in this article.  You know, the part where they gave up their pensions in exchange for a 401k plan so they could keep their jobs.

Of course Union members were "strongly urged" to vote for Obama.  Obama has their best interests in mind, and as a union, they tend to vote together, hence the term "union".

Why would a union member vote for a person who wants to get rid of unions?  It don't make no damn sense.

[Link: cnn.com]

It's likely that the pension was a guaranteed payout type, not a guaranteed contribution. The former can't help but fail, unless the economy is all rainbows and unicorns- they usually guarantee rates that aren't sustainable and GM's pension is a shining example of this. It's also the reason they needed to be bailed out. The numbers I read and heard was that every vehicle GM sold included a $1500 cost for retirees' pensions.

Obama has his own best interests in mind and he knows unions vote Democratic.

My dad was in a union and he used to invite some of the guys from Harley over. They bitched about how much they made and said they wanted more money, with the justification that "They make XX times our hourly rate on every bike". I didn't win any fans by asking who bought the land, improved it, built the factories, bought the machinery and materials, who pays them, who tolerated the strike, etc. My first personal exposure to the effects of a union was when I had a summer job the year I graduated High School. The Teamsters went on strike and I couldn't work because the lumber yard had to close (union yard). I made squat because they wanted MORE, MORE, MORE. Harley going on strike didn't help my views, either. One thing that pissed me off was seeing foreign vehicles in the '70s with "Buy Union" bumper stickers on them.

When an employer abuses their employees, they need protection but what people deal with now is NOTHING like the kind of things that happened in the late 19th-early 20th Centuries.

I have yet to talk to a union member who understands that their higher wages cause increased prices at the store. Obviously, foreign-made products don't affect this as much, but for US-made goods, it can't be argued.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 23 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:00
Bonavox
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On February 13, 2014 at 22:44, Hasbeen said...

Disappearing unions = Disappearing Middle class.

 

The middle class started disappearing the second George W. Bush was elected.

I'm politically neutral, I despise the Republicans as much as the Democrats so I'm not bent toward one side.

A fact is a fact...GW deregulated everything he could get his hands on and charged up the credit cards of this country and now we get to deal with the consequences. And it's not like Obama has done anything different. The unions are no different than any political party...

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely !!!!!


Like the song says, "Lord, have mercy on the working man!"

He's the only one that gets screwed everyday!!!
Bill's Electric & Home Theater & Plumbing & Automation & Small Engine Repair, and Animal Removal Services......did I mention we do remotes also?
Post 24 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:01
3PedalMINI
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On February 13, 2014 at 22:44, Hasbeen said...
You wouldn't want a 401k over a pension.  But as Brendan has stated on numerous occasions...The unions are breaking the companies backs.

I was showing that Boeings union, (the one that Brendan refers to as the worst) actually gave up their pensions so they could come to work every day.

The fact of the matter is, the companies are breaking the unions.

Disappearing unions = Disappearing Middle class.

 

You poor soul, see you dont know the true story about that...Ya see they held the vote on the Friday after new years when a 1/3 of the workers were not even there and could not vote. The union bent over and screwed its own members.

Before Christmas when they did the first vote the union rejected it. Then Boeing countered the offered and the people said it wasnt even worth it to put it to vote. Then when the union found out that a 1/3 of the workers were not going to be in they held a "special' vote and got it to pass.

WTF kind of shit is that? The union that the workers pay into and are members and trust that they vote as WHOLE pulls that grimmy shit.So when they pull that kind of stuff why even have the members pay and be a part of a union? they dont have a choice.
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 25 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:02
Hasbeen
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Without looking it up...I'd like one of you Non-Union guys to tell me what you think the average hourly rate is for a Big 3 assembly line worker.

 
Post 26 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:04
highfigh
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On February 13, 2014 at 22:58, Hasbeen said...
This is what all of you "Non-Union" people do.  You extract one stupid story that you heard about a guy that you don't know, from a state that you've never been to, and circumstances that aren't clear to you.

That's not what the conversation is about.  The conversation is about Brendan saying that Unions are awful.

But to answer you specific question.  That employee is dumb. Here's why they're dumb.  Because if they bothered to care or knew anything, they'd know that they can opt out of supporting the union.  But instead, they simply cry about it to you.  Here's the kicker, they still get all of the benefits of being in the union, and they only have to pay a small paper work fee monthly.


Here's the rules:

Whether they know it or not, employees in a unionized workplace have a choice to make: they can join and support the labor union that represents their bargaining unit, or they can choose to refrain from joining and supporting the union.(2) In a diverse society such as ours, it is hardly surprising that individual employees' opinions frequently differ from those of the labor union officials charged with representing their interests, and that many employees will not want to join the union or support it.
Unfortunately, most employees do not know or clearly understand their choices and legal alternatives vis-a-vis the union. On the one hand, it is common knowledge that employees have the right to join and assist unions. Less well known, however, is employees' right to refrain from supporting the union. This "right to refrain" includes: a) the right to refrain from joining the union in the first place;(3) b) the right to resign from union membership at any time, and thereby escape any post-resignation internal union fines or discipline;(4) and c) the right to stop paying full union dues and instead pay only a reduced "financial core fee" which excludes the union's political and non-collective bargaining expenditures.(5) Unfortunately, many employees are misled into believing, either tacitly or through outright misrepresentations, that they are required as a condition of employment to join the union and pay full dues as a condition of employment.(6)

A state I haven't been to? You don't even know which state I'm referring to, or who is being forced to pay dues. Well done! Nice job of leaping to an empty conclusion.

BTW- this was in Kenosha, WI and it's the teacher's union that is doing this. I live in Wisconsin.

I keep hearing that teachers have to pay for supplies out of their own pocket- why doesn't the teacher's union put a provision into the contract to cover these, for the kids whose parents can't afford the cost? I know many teachers, too- it's a hard job, but I have a hard time being too sympathetic about their pay.

Last edited by highfigh on February 13, 2014 23:12.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 27 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:07
3PedalMINI
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On February 13, 2014 at 23:02, Hasbeen said...
Without looking it up...I'd like one of you Non-Union guys to tell me what you think the average hourly rate is for a Big 3 assembly line worker.

 

today? $14-$19 with $2 of every hour worked going right into the unions pocket.

Now make sure you scroll up 3 posts and get the real deal on that "awesome deal" you think the union cut with Boeing.
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 28 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:07
Bonavox
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That being said...

I do feel that workers should have representation and a collective governing body that insures worker safety, equality, fair wages and could organize health care and retirement.

Could Unions do this...sure! Just not the ones we currently have now. The ones we have now are as bad as the political parties we have.
Bill's Electric & Home Theater & Plumbing & Automation & Small Engine Repair, and Animal Removal Services......did I mention we do remotes also?
Post 29 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:09
highfigh
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On February 13, 2014 at 23:02, Hasbeen said...
Without looking it up...I'd like one of you Non-Union guys to tell me what you think the average hourly rate is for a Big 3 assembly line worker.

 

Not what it used to be. You want the whole burden, or just the stated hourly rate? Is this piecework, or do they pay on that basis. I ask because Harley paid that way.

Big 3 Wages, overtime and vacation- about $40/hour. Benefits, about $15/hour.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 30 made on Thursday February 13, 2014 at 23:12
kgossen
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What qualifications do you need to be a low voltage contractor in Maryland?

I have my FSR ticket (Field Safety Representative) here in BC. I've had to take numerous courses, have over 1800 pre-wire hours of working under a licensed FSR before be able to challenge the test.

I can pull my own permits, I can run my own 110v branch circuits and even home runs when needed. I can even walk onto a job site, see something wrong being done, and shut down the job site. I'm limited to under 600 volts.

I can't wire a house for 110v. When I need an electrician, I bring one in. I haven't had many issues with electricians but maybe just lucky.

This reminds me of years ago in Ontario, they were trying to get a law passed so that you had to be a journeyman mechanic to install a car stereo. Didn't happen when most mechanics had no desire to install a stereo.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
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