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How to help a DIY client
This thread has 32 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:03
longshot16
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Client came to me after another dealer tried to force bad solutions down their throat. They are hell bent on a DIY solution as they work in a tech/ app development environment.

They are willing to pay for a good design and really do need some expert help. The prewire was terrible based on the client specified direction. Simple fixes for us.

Simple system consisting of 4 Dist Audio zones and a small surround system.

My thoughts were a RTI AD4 plus any control system. Do any of the DIY type pieces have codes for RTI? Thinking something like iRule.

It is sad because we could do a super cool little system with Crestron but they want open source.
The Unicorn Whisperer
Post 2 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:09
Bonavox
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Give them a Harmony remote and wait for them to come back to you in a few weeks...lol

Jon, I doubt these are your clients if they are stuck on open source, you probably have bigger fish to fry...and that ain't Hasbeen...lol :)

Be polite but don't get sucked in for little or no profit. Sometimes saying no thanks is the best decision.


You could sell them the equipment and tell them here you go, good luck with your open source programming, they will either swim or they will sink and then they might call you back.
Bill's Electric & Home Theater & Plumbing & Automation & Small Engine Repair, and Animal Removal Services......did I mention we do remotes also?
OP | Post 3 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:11
longshot16
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I do understand they are nice enough but maybe just passing is the best way to go about doing it. This is one of those "but my friend said this is that and that is this"....
The Unicorn Whisperer
Post 4 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:14
Mac Burks (39)
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*****EDITED***** Don't bother with RTI. I would go with Sonos and sell them speakers/wire/labor etc and let them use whatever DIY product they want for control. Don't get in the middle of it or you will be getting the angry phone calls when "your damn system" doesn't work.

Put the control system and distributed audio in the same rack/cabinet or closet as the surround gear so all of your black boxes are in one spot. This will make life easier if you get the "come rip this out and put in crestron" call down the road.

Some people are very good at negotiating themselves into a nightmare and they always forget that it was their idea. iRule is a capable product and should work fine. Just make sure that they understand that THEY are the iRule or whatever programmer...not you. "why doesn't the macro work" "not sure, have a nice day".

Last edited by Mac Burks (39) on October 14, 2013 21:27.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 5 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:16
goldenzrule
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You could just give him Sonos. He'll love it, you'll get the credit. I mean, Sonos is built for people like this, isn't it?

There are a number of options for a basic home theater setup. There are a number of DIY control systems. If he wants to integrate Sonos into a control system than he will have to hand the keys over to you. Not because you don't want to let him do it himself, but because your hands will be tied. I'd be hesitant to put any RTI equipment in a DIY guys house. That AD4 may lead him to look into what else they have. Next thing you know he is calling looking for a T3V+ or whatever and software so he can program it.
OP | Post 6 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:18
longshot16
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Sonos was always the DA source. The question was zones and control. AD4 plus Connect and control system is all they wanted.
The Unicorn Whisperer
Post 7 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:20
goldenzrule
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Damn, you replied before I can edit. Stop being so fast poser
OP | Post 8 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:21
longshot16
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i see what you did there.
The Unicorn Whisperer
Post 9 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:26
iform
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4 Sonos Connect Amps, 1 Sonos Connect, 1 tv, 1 surround receiver, speakers + sub. Let them choose the remote they want to control the surround system, whether it be iRule or Harmony, etc.

And charge them to correct any wiring mistakes.
Post 10 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 21:26
goldenzrule
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On October 14, 2013 at 21:21, longshot16 said...
i see what you did there.

Does it gain me entrance into the players club?
Post 11 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 22:03
77W
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We had a client like this. I was glad he fired us because at the time I really didn't know better than to allow things to drag on and on even as they were leading to total disaster.

What will kill you here is if you don't have an iron clad scope of work, and if you don't setup your client's expectations PERFECTLY. They will always be so in their heads about ideas they won't remember what you talked about, they'll want you to do job B when you show up to do job A, and unless you read their minds they probably won't be happy at the end. You will ALWAYS chase a moving target with these kinds of jobs.

After some lessons learned, we now only take clients with the mental fortitude to decide they want something and stand by it, not try to outplay us at our own game, or on the flip side be so indecisive as to not know what they want nor communicate to us clearly what their expectations are.

We only ever had success with one such client early on - we did a thorough prewire with patch panel trimout on everything, popped some speakers in the ceiling, TVs on the wall, and called it a day. He took it from there as far as "the system" was concerned. We put the framework into place and then he was able to geek out to his heart's content with the equipment of his choice.

Oh, and have your change order form ready. You'll probably be writing a few of them.
Post 12 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 23:02
Dave in Balto
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I've done jobs like this and been just fine. Establish t&m, establish that you are a consultant, establish that there is no nstallation warranty.

Sit down with them, decide on a game plan, decide what equipment they insist on sourcing themselves, what you will provide. Let them know you dont know the ins and outs of every product in the world, and that the project will go easier if they work with you to use the products that you recomend.

If they insist on doing their own control, let them do it.
Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

The Dude
Post 13 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 23:24
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme
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Consulting is THE way to go.


Sell them nothing but your time and you cannot be blamed for equipment that they buy. Especially so with equipment they buy that you didn't recommend.


Maybe they'll get tired of messing around with the stuff and ask for a real solution.
Post 14 made on Monday October 14, 2013 at 23:37
Neurorad
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He doesn't want to DIY to save money. He enjoys the work.

This is the kind of DIYer that is OK to work with, IMO. You can make money on this relationship.

This relationship will last years, if the terms are clear up front. He will need future help, repeatedly.
TB A+ Partner
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
Post 15 made on Tuesday October 15, 2013 at 02:23
Ernie Gilman
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Explain two of my concepts to them: art project and research project.

They probably understand art project if the wife has wanted something special built and it must look just so and they have taken it on themselves.  Research project is similar but it involves even more as an incredible amount of information must be located and, more importantly to the project, an incredible amount of information must be abandoned when it is seen to be irrelevant.

These two concepts have four things in common:
one cannot pin down a budget
one cannot pin down a schedule
the person who does the work is responsible for all choices
there is huge dissatisfaction when middle steps must be abandoned

As I heard it, Tom Edison tried 6,000 things for light bulb filaments before he found one that worked.  That's a research project.  And all of these things were available -- and none of them were rocket science, to century-mix metaphors.  They simply needed to be tried.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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