You and about 99% of the rest of the free world. The historical revisionism blaming Obama for the financial meltdown that had its start years before his administration has already begun in earnest, would I be correct in interpreting that you're implying he is to blame?

The second inference seems to be 'no one has been able to sign up because it's crashed, therefore ACA sucks.'

Even though this sign up period deadline is December 15th.

So I take it as 'Times were great during Bush, sucked under Obama, and Obamacare sucks right out of the gate because it's called the Affordable Care Act and nobody can afford it because servers crashed! Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck!'

It appears your drinking the Kool-Aid gushing out of AM radio or the right wing blogs. It's the intellectual equivalent of pork rinds: sounds good, tastes (sorta) good but it's really salty and not that satisfying of a meal, but you really know it's bad for you.

I made barely any money in the Reagan years but made a ton in the Clinton years.

(I was in high school during Reagan and got a real job in Clinton years. But these details don't matter.)

Wow, I never said the ACA sucked. My point is that people on here are defending it to the death with not one example of it working. All I am asking for is one example of a person getting good health care coverage, with a low deductible that is affordable. A lot of people checking out the website is not a sign that the ACA is popular or working. That is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard.

'Defending it to the death' is spin. But enrollment just started so how is it to be deemed to be working yet? You should ask detractors complaining about the web sites being crashed, inferring that this is proof that it fail.


Yes, I agree.

For those against:

If you haven't tried it, how do you know?



For those in favor of:

If you haven't tried it, how do you know?



In actuality we can only find out if this program is a good, or bad, thing after it's been in play for some time.

At that point there can be a real discussion.

This thread is like trying to watch the movie Enemy At The Gates and trying to pick a side to root for. Do you pull for the fascist or the communists?

No, more like this:

Great movie! That is a good example of not just this thread but our government. Both sides are evil. You can argue that one side might be a little less evil than the other on certain policies, but they are both bad. It cost millions to be elected. That means someone paid to put your congressman in office. It also means any sane person wouldn't run for office if they didn't know they would make millions. The President and the vast majority of congress are bought and paid for. The fact is there would be no ACA with out big money backing it.

I really don't see why any of us would not at least give it a try, were we to deal with it solely as an economic decision. As small businesses ( either owning or working for ) we are at the greatest disadvantage in the old system and paid the most money for the least coverage. Here we at least get to join an exchange composed of many more people and should have the benefit of paying less for coverage. If your coverage already comes from a Fortune 500 company through your wife you may have some objections, all things being equal ( not needing lifetime caps, portability or previous condition coverage). In NY we have had none of the server issues because our State opted not to play politics. Most Red States decided, for a variety of reasons to opt out, so it was left to the Federal government to come up with the solution and it has to date been less than optimal, at least in terms of the site being available.

Sadly, we cannot remove our political views from economic decisions. As feminists put it, the personal is political. If you can save money on your insurance it is a good thing. I get my insurance via my wife's Fortune 500 plan. We have not seen any penalties nor has our tax advisor said there will be any. We shall see. But if you don't have that option, everything I've seen has resulted in lower insurance prices for better coverage. Obviously, if you're young and didn't expect to pay even 150 for insurance the response might be different. Strip away the politics and ask yourself if you'll save money. It's hard to imagine any of us will not since most of us are small companies who lack the numbers to get the best deals.

Actually, the individual person trying to buy their own coverage is at the greatest disadvantage. Facing higher rates and more exclusions for things like pre-existing conditions and lack of preventative treatment.

I shall reserve further judgment until I am able to a quote from the exchange. I have made several attempts, but have not gotten to an actual quote yet.

If I can interject something here, I'd like to.  The majority of you who know me, know which side of this argument I'm on.  I also used to be one of the guys who'd love to get in here and mix it up.  It would go on for 5-15 pages, and we'd never get anywhere except angry.  Calling each other names, etc.  

It's dumb.  You're not dumb, and the person opposing your view isn't dumb. It's the arguments that are dumb.  I'm not going to change your opinion, and you're not going to change mine. 

If you haven't noticed, I haven't been posting and contributing at anywhere close to the same level as I used to.  You may have noticed, you may not have, doesn't matter. The reason?  I had a heart attack.  A mild one, but it was still a heart attack.  I'm 44. 

Scared the crap out of me. I'm not telling you this because I want the "sorry to hear that" garbage, because I really don't.  However, what I'd like for you guys to do is think about the things that matter, the things that you can control and the things you can't.  This argument doesn't matter, but what it does is slowly chip away at your health.  All these dumb little arguments, problems, stressers, etc. they just slowly chip away at you. 

Go play with your kids, pet or walk your dog, hug your wife or girlfriend, call your folks.  None of this matters.  I know what you're thinking....It DOES MATTER, it affects my life.  Yes, but it's going to affect your life in some form whether you argue about it or not.

Now you say, well why don't you go play wiht your kids?  My kids are in bed.  we're on a deer hunting trip right now.  Just thought I'd check in on some guys in the industry that I care about.  

Sorry to sound sappy, but do me a favor and give it a good long think.  

It took me a long time to realize what's important.  It's that little kid eating biscuits and gravy and a giant glass of chocolate milk in the second picture.







Thought I'd throw this one in for my "right wing" friends.  

Weird, all the big money and an entire ideology seems seems to be fighting it. 

As someone who just turned 40 and has a stratospheric level of stress (some self imposed, most not), I agree.
Life is too short.


Also, sexiest "gun safe" ever. Wow! Want!

Were you insured? :) Sorry...had to do it. Get well soon...whether you wanted to hear it or not. I think attitude is more than half the battle. Spend time with the kids and the guns and cars and dogs or whatever it is that actually makes you/us happy.

My uncle had a heart attack at 40. Medical bills and the inability to work bankrupted him immediately. 20 years in business was no match for the human bodies inability to fix every problem that our stressful lives and poor diet throw at it.