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Topic:
Ethics question
This thread has 211 replies. Displaying posts 196 through 210.
Post 196 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 21:10
Anthony
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On May 20, 2013 at 09:57, Trunk-Slammer -Supreme said...

Fortress sales could have, upon recognizing the quote, immediately informed Terrmul that they could not justly set him up as a dealer for this specific quoted sale and left it at that. I don't think there was any need to call the existing dealer after that action was taken, so I will find some fault on that account.

Unethical?

Not really.

I don't know if it is a mistake. When we first started out we did not deal in seating so when seating was involved we sub contracted it out to a "competitor" with whom we had a good relationship with and outsourced that part to them. So I can understand when they discus talking to the first dealer about it, to me it is not that alien of an idea of competitors working together for the benefit of the client. Now in our case the situation was a lot different since we contacted the other dealer first and we were there when our clients were with them so we were involved, but that is why I don't see it as that odd of a situation. If this happened a bit differently things might have ended up good for both of them and better for the client.
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Post 197 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 21:28
Anthony
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On May 20, 2013 at 10:05, drewski300 said...
No enemies here. Just simply a discussion that has gotten heated. But to say he has stolen a quote is simply untrue. Especially given Fortress never provided him any info. I would have done the same thing as Terrmul and HAVE done this in the past. If a client wants something, I'm going to try to make it work for them!

agree, that is why I don't think he did anything unethical either. For me the client always comes first but there were some mistakes that were made.

But let me ask you this, a client comes to you with a set-upon paper and shows you a detailed quote from an other dealer and asks you to bid on it? would you? In that case I think it would be ethically wrong to do so. But in this case if he did not realize it was a quote for me the ethical part is moot but it is still a mistake.

I don't think he would be this mad if he were told from the beginning he could not become a dealer and Fortress was willing to help him fulfill the ID's requests.

But isn't hat the point. Fortress could either help him fulfill the ID's requests by selling him those chairs and PO the original dealer that worked on the quote and is a dealer already, tell him to get lost because they were working on this sale with someone else or play intermediary and try and set-up a deal between the two parties where everyone wins. I see them going back to the original dealer as them doing the later.

The problem is that everyone assumes the only reason Fortress contacted the original dealer was to tattletale.
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Post 198 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 21:34
Anthony
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On May 20, 2013 at 12:45, Mac Burks (39) said...

Did you tell the OP that Fortress doesn't supply non dealers with drawings when you spoke to him? Or was he supposed to know that? Seems like you could have put an end to this the moment he called by saying "Where did you get that document? We only provide those to dealers."

I can't talk about techvalley but I never said he did it on purpose. That is why I said I don't think anyone did anything unethical, but it was a mistake. If someone steals something and gives it to you and you did not know it was stolen the object does not ceases to be stolen none the less.
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Post 199 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 22:04
Anthony
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On May 20, 2013 at 12:52, Mac Burks (39) said...
The problem I and others have is the underhanded way they went about it. Today its fine but what about tomorrow when you have a 100k product sale for a product you aren't a dealer for and the manufacturer decides to send that info down the line to an existing dealer? This was the part about other shoes and feet mentioned above.

there is one problem with your statement, it does not fit the facts. Lets replay this a bit
ID spends time with company A deciding what seating will be used, ID shows result to B, B calls manufacturer and wants to know the dealer cost of what A quoted. The manufacturer calls A and let's him know what is happening.

That is way different from your example where

customer spends time with A who decides on XYZ (that is worth100K) but he does not carry it, A calls manufacturer and asks to become a dealer, manufacturer calls B and tells him "hey we have a customer that wants to buy something that will make you 100K go poach him"


Who acknowledged it was copied? So far we have the OP stating he received info from an interior designer. He never mentioned it was a drawing or a quote. We have cmont who was the dealer who the ID tire kicked to death. He has absolutely no way of knowing if the OP got his hands on a document he provided. And the manufacturer who mentions "exact specifications". Exact specifications is a very long stretch from "a document we produced for the dealer with the dealers information on it".

it is acknowledged and he did say drawing, and even if it was not how can someone get a quote from the manufacturer without specifics? I have no idea what these guys charge but don't you think that all the styles have the same price? do you think chair type won't make a difference (reclining, electrical reclining lounger), arm type (are we talking sofa, a love chair somewhere, or arms between each seat), or accessories (d-box, if there is a cup holder and what material), upholstery (fabric, suede, several kinds of leather...) and sometimes even colour changes the price

It is like saying it makes sense someone coming to you and asking what is the price of the TV, one with a black cabinet. Brand, size, model will all play a big difference in that price.

Also let's face it what ever info he went to fortress with was enough for them to realize it was the quote they made for the first dealer. It is insane to think anything (except for those ugly cow chairs) on the website would have been enough for them to do that.
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Post 200 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 22:56
Mac Burks (39)
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On May 21, 2013 at 21:34, Anthony said...
I can't talk about techvalley but I never said he did it on purpose. That is why I said I don't think anyone did anything unethical, but it was a mistake. If someone steals something and gives it to you and you did not know it was stolen the object does not ceases to be stolen none the less.

Okay.
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Post 201 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 23:03
Mac Burks (39)
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On May 21, 2013 at 22:04, Anthony said...
there is one problem with your statement, it does not fit the facts. Lets replay this a bit
ID spends time with company A deciding what seating will be used, ID shows result to B, B calls manufacturer and wants to know the dealer cost of what A quoted. The manufacturer calls A and let's him know what is happening.

I think your replay button might have the wrong command attached to it. B got a document from the ID and was asked to provide the product on the document.

Don't feel bad...the manufacturer made the same incorrect assumption that lead to the IMO unethical action/mistake whatever you want to call it.

That is way different from your example where

What example?


customer spends time with A who decides on XYZ (that is worth100K) but he does not carry it, A calls manufacturer and asks to become a dealer, manufacturer calls B and tells him "hey we have a customer that wants to buy something that will make you 100K go poach him"

Not sure where you think you read this. Wasn't from one of my posts. Possibly not from this thread.

it is acknowledged and he did say drawing, and even if it was not how can someone get a quote from the manufacturer without specifics? I have no idea what these guys charge but don't you think that all the styles have the same price? do you think chair type won't make a difference (reclining, electrical reclining lounger), arm type (are we talking sofa, a love chair somewhere, or arms between each seat), or accessories (d-box, if there is a cup holder and what material), upholstery (fabric, suede, several kinds of leather...) and sometimes even colour changes the price

As i stated before the term "drawing" could be autocad schematics of everything including the bolts being used to secure your 5 seater or it could be a scribbled note on a cocktail napkin.

You are making assumptions that the "drawing" had more information than "5 seater". Once you made that incorrect assumption it lead to more mistakes.

It is like saying it makes sense someone coming to you and asking what is the price of the TV, one with a black cabinet. Brand, size, model will all play a big difference in that price.

No one asks me about the price of a TV. Clients tell me they want a TV in a specific room and i choose it for them. It used to be a lot harder to pick them but not its basically just pick whatever fits because there are no good TVs left. And if you do find one thats good...good luck trying to match it in the next size up or down. They pay whatever the TV costs because i don't sell TVs.

Also let's face it what ever info he went to fortress with was enough for them to realize it was the quote they made for the first dealer. It is insane to think anything (except for those ugly cow chairs) on the website would have been enough for them to do that.

You are making another assumption here. You are assuming that "enough" information was more than a cocktail napkin scribble. Its insane that you made these wild assumptions.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 202 made on Tuesday May 21, 2013 at 23:47
Anthony
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On May 21, 2013 at 23:03, Mac Burks (39) said...
I think your replay button might have the wrong command attached to it. B got a document from the ID and was asked to provide the product on the document.

Don't feel bad...the manufacturer made the same incorrect assumption that lead to the IMO unethical action/mistake whatever you want to call it.

yes that is what I said do you know how to read?
ID shows result to B
What example?

Not sure where you think you read this. Wasn't from one of my posts. Possibly not from this thread.

when you said "what about tomorrow when you have a 100k product sale for a product you aren't a dealer for and the manufacturer decides to send that info down the line to an existing dealer?"


As i stated before the term "drawing" could be autocad schematics of everything including the bolts being used to secure your 5 seater or it could be a scribbled note on a cocktail napkin.

You are making assumptions that the "drawing" had more information than "5 seater". Once you made that incorrect assumption it lead to more mistakes.

You are making another assumption here. You are assuming that "enough" information was more than a cocktail napkin scribble. Its insane that you made these wild assumptions.

but none of that matters. let's have some fun, let's assume the ID is a hot babe and it was tattooed on her butt. Would it change anything? The info is what is important.

As for it being an assumption that the info shared was important. A simple question since you said 5 seater do you assume that







all of those would be the exact same price? and are you assuming (if we continue with the assumption of 5 seater) that the guy at Fortress will say "hey someone asked for a 5 seater, didn't that other guy ask for a 5 seater, they must be asking for the exact same thing, let's call him. Isn't the more reasonable deduction that on the phone call a lot more info was given than just 5 seater?


No one asks me about the price of a TV. Clients tell me they want a TV in a specific room and i choose it for them.

agree with what you say but that was not what I asked and you are trying to circumvent the question, so if you prefer, do you think it makes sense for some moron to walk into BB and asks "what is the price of a TV one that comes in a black cabinet?" and expect an answer from the kid working there? Don't you think the kid there would need to narrow it down a bit "what size of TV are you looking for?" "are there some brands that you want".... and somehow they will need to narrow it down a bit before a price is discussed.
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Post 203 made on Wednesday May 22, 2013 at 00:10
Mac Burks (39)
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On May 21, 2013 at 23:47, Anthony said...
yes that is what I said do you know how to read?

Yes. I am also able to tell the difference between facts and assumptions. You should try it sometime.

ID shows result to B

when you said "what about tomorrow when you have a 100k product sale for a product you aren't a dealer for and the manufacturer decides to send that info down the line to an existing dealer?"

I knew what you meant but i wanted you to quote it. I wasn't saying it was a similar situation. I said what happens when...as in something different. Add comprehension to your lists of things to learn.

but none of that matters. let's have some fun, let's assume the ID is a hot babe and it was tattooed on her butt. Would it change anything? The info is what is important.

A tattoo is not a proper document for quoting seating. I think you should check the seal on all of the glue bottles in your house.

As for it being an assumption that the info shared was important. A simple question since you said 5 seater do you assume that






You said 5 seater. Why would i assume something about what you said? Why are you saying i said what you said?


all of those would be the exact same price? and are you assuming (if we continue with the assumption of 5 seater) that the guy at Fortress will say "hey someone asked for a 5 seater, didn't that other guy ask for a 5 seater, they must be asking for the exact same thing, let's call him. Isn't the more reasonable deduction that on the phone call a lot more info was given than just 5 seater?

I love how you keep proving my point for me. At what point did you get your hands on "the" (any) document that was passed from either dealer, the manufacturer or the ID? Im just curious as to why you keep making up imaginary scenarious about a document you never saw. I stated and i will state again...you dont know how much detail was on the "quote" and frankly neither does the manufacturer if all they did was talk to the OP over the phone.

Reasonable deduction=assumption not fact. You and the word reasonable shouldn't be used in the same sentence.



agree with what you say but that was not what I asked and you are trying to circumvent the question, so if you prefer, do you think it makes sense for some moron to walk into BB and asks "what is the price of a TV one that comes in a black cabinet?" and expect an answer from the kid working there? Don't you think the kid there would need to narrow it down a bit "what size of TV are you looking for?" "are there some brands that you want".... and somehow they will need to narrow it down a bit before a price is discussed.

I answered that question the way i did because i couldn't figure out what the hell you were getting at. This thread is about theater seating not about TVs and black cabinets. Since you cant let it go...

You are asking me questions that are related to your incorrect assumptions. You are picking apart pieces of information from the ball of misinformation you have been rolling through this thread.
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Post 204 made on Wednesday May 22, 2013 at 20:14
Anthony
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I have no idea what you are talking. So let's start from the beginning. What assumptions do you think I am making?
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Post 205 made on Wednesday May 22, 2013 at 22:01
Mac Burks (39)
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On May 22, 2013 at 20:14, Anthony said...
I have no idea what you are talking. So let's start from the beginning. What assumptions do you think I am making?

You usually have no idea what anyone is talking about.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 206 made on Thursday May 23, 2013 at 00:26
BMaxey
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Would it be unethical to request a refund, say 11 minutes of my life spent reading twists and turns of this slaphappy saga?
Post 207 made on Thursday May 23, 2013 at 08:55
custominstalls
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I'm with you BMaxey, but you read fast, that 14 pages took me over an hour and several headache tablets with copious amounts of coffee to get through.
It wont be a blockbuster but I'm sure Ryan Gosling would be up for a leading part when it hits the big screen.
learning the hard way
Post 208 made on Thursday May 23, 2013 at 08:57
24/7
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Like watching a reality show, most of us checked out long before the finale.

Post 209 made on Thursday May 23, 2013 at 09:51
Mr. Brad
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On May 23, 2013 at 00:26, BMaxey said...
Would it be unethical to request a refund, say 11 minutes of my life spent reading twists and turns of this slaphappy saga?

Only 11 minutes? I must be a slow reader! And the clock keeps ticking......
Post 210 made on Wednesday November 20, 2019 at 17:08
Gman
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Old thread but what a terrible company to deal with. Our recent order was caught up in a Canada customs inspection. I have been dealing with Fortress for a week now and could not tell me how long the inspection would take. They overcharged me for warehouse bonding fees. It took all of 4 hours for my customs broker to get the shipment released. Will never deal with them again. Once they get their money they don’t give a shite.
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