Hi all,

I got a fire in my pants, and you all can help me extiniguish it! GOD that sounds sick and wrong, but ohh well!

For the last ten years, this has been bugging the sheeeeeeit out of me, and I need your input!

Burn In.

That's right, burn in!

It seems to me that people who spend 60K on a CRT projo, or 5K on a CRT RPTV, or maybe 10-20K on a monster plasma, should not HAVE to worry about burned-in images! We agree, right?

So, why is it that the BROADCAST industry seems to be going the other way, and placing MORE static images on the screen to burn in?

For example; Cartoon Network has the same image, in EXACTLY the same location (lower right corner) at ALL times except for commercials...Nicktoons, MTV and all the Viacom networks have the same thing in one corner or the other....CNN, HeadLine News, MSNBC have the tickers...WHY WHY WHY???!!!

Can't they move, rotate, gyrate or spin these things every couple of minutes?

I know this may seems nitpicky, but some customers watch certain channels, EXTENSIVELY, and should not have to replace their multi-thousand dollar displays beacuse of a damn stock ticker or CBS logo burned into their screen...

Do any of you have inside contatcs with any of these major broadcasters? I would be happy to draft a letter to send on the professional circles behalf, but with some of these companies (such as Viacom) it's almost impossible to find any viable information on their websites....

rant off

avdude

Then they add in those annoying pop up ads, (TBS), advertising their programming that comes on at a different time. And they do it during the progam! I agree that something must be communicated to these companies, but it appears that the only thing big companies understand is money. How do we fight that? Maybe we should stop watching broadcast completely. Maybe we should sue the broadcast company for burn in. Once they are obligated to replace a few thousand tvs, maybe they will change their business practices. That's the ticket, let's put together a class action suit. There must be some lawyer out there who is willing to take on the big guys for us.

Oh Man,

You hit one of my nails right on the head. I have a permanent little "NOGGIN" logo in the lower right hand corner of my TV. I sent e-mail on their site pretending to be my five year old which said "I love your channel but my daddy won't let me watch it anymore because you all are too stupid to move your logo around and he doesn't like it showing up on DVDs". I have customers who this has happened too who are also not happy but at least all of the logos have formed just one sort of big "logo blob" instead of anything discernable.

Please draft that letter... get it going by CEDIA and I'll help you circulate it. It is amazing that these guys allow this but its a classic example of one department being detached from another. Corporations, Governing bodies, etc... One hand is picking the nose while the other is wiping the nether regions.

My favorite detachment story happened here in Washington. A guy bought a bunch of snowplows at a King County Surplus Auction for $1000.00 each. He sold them to the city of Bellevue, which is smack dab in the middle of King County for $7000.00 each... a healthy profit no doubt and a feather in the cap of capitalism, but this of course was paid for by taxpayers. God wouldn't you think that Someone in Bellevue might have called the county or vice versa?

Obviously the programmers who put these on have no bloody technical knowledge at all... or they don't care... or maybe they feel that it keeps service, parts sales and new TV sales going. Every time I see that logo blob on my set my ass is chapped. I'm with you on this one!

Yes! We can get coupons for a free DVD while the lawyer makes off with several million.

More like a coupon for a 3% discount on A DVD.

And you'll have to spend more in postage than the da** coupon is worth.

I can almost guarantee that if someone drafts a letter to the major networks and posts a link to send it here from Remote Central that the response would be enormous.

Let flex some muscle and see what kind of power we have!!!!

Obviously you guys are on the right track, but will it ever happen? However a full ISF calibration will ameliorate this condition. The contrast will be significantly reduced providing much greater protection against logo burn-in. I still hate them and their bastard cousins ...the ubiquitous POP-UP!

Guys,

Many of you already know I write a monthly column for a national mag, so I have no problem writing the stuff we need. I may even have a small amount of clout on the issue...I will draft the letter, bounce it off CEDIA, PARA, CEA and whoever, see if I can get it some national attention and get it going...but what I'd really like from you is some additional info...e-mail your names, business names, whatever, if you'd like to have it presented as a bigger, more unified effort, and I'll get it compiled...

Also, if you have other input, such as the pop-ups, and other desires for specific wording, let me know, and I'll include it!

thanks!

avdude

I agree with you guys (it is a pain) but I don't think it would work

1) logo is there for advertising, for instance if you tape the show it is for ever associated with the channel/broadcaster

2) I don't know if they did any survey of shows for the best place for the logo, but it might be there for a reason. For instance putting it at the top of the screen might cover peoples faces (like in a round table discussion....). I think in general there is more happening in the top 1/3 then the bottom 1/3

3) I agree tickers could be moved since it is added in editing so they could make sure it does not interfere with anything important, but by keeping them at the same place it makes it easier to find, almost like a reflex for someone that cares


I think some solutions might be

1)to try and get them to use more transparent or more faded logos (hopefully smaller as well)

2) if they do use tickers, get them to change colour scheme every so often so the same colour is not used all the time and that way you save on burn in

I think taking a more moderate view might help the cause

BINGO Anthony! If we make a lot of noise about what a pain this is, and how it costs money, but suggest something moderate, I think we are more likely to make something happen. I noticed tonight that my local religious station has its logo on a good deal of the time but it is about a 40% gray. It shows against most backgrounds, light or dark, but it is not offensive to the screen material.

I'm not suggesting that we (I) go off half cocked about this. I realize I'm kinda kown for that here on occasion.

I think a polite and moderate approach IS the way to go, and I think their are a lot of viable solutions...don't worry, when I get done with the final draft, and have some broadbased support (only one e-mail of interest so far) then I'll post it up on the IP website prior to sending it anywhere!

avdude

Sounds like a good reason to upsell customers to DLP.

Why though, should we have to compromise PQ to acoomodate broadcasters, when solutions like mentioned above might be so simple....

I know this may spark another debate, and that's fine, let's go, but there simply too many CRT, plasma, and to a much lesser degree LCD, display devices out there that ARE succeptible to burn in...

and any video purist KNOWS that CRT is still the best PQ, for those that can afford it!

avdude

I would really like to see something done about this. It's in everyones best interest. DLP and LCOS owners likely still have several CRT displays around their homes too.

Those that agree should try to unite in some fashion. How about AVDudes offer? Send him an email.

With enough support here, we might garner additional resources from CEDIA, CEA and others.

did not mean to imply that.
But

1) I think that the topic is a bit emotional (i.e. really annoys everyone even if they were not affected)and so I think it is easy just to say get rid of them


2) that by giving alternatives it might help the cause because I think the broadcasters have good reasons (from their point of view) for what they do. So asking for their removal might not go anywhere