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Topic:
Episode Amp Level Control-No Global
This thread has 28 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 29.
Post 16 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 07:46
chuch jr
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Also, Forgot to ask if Snap makes preamps? I did not recognize any on their web site.
Post 17 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 08:39
goldenzrule
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Snap does not make a preamp. The amp with 70 watts per channel can drive outdoor speakers nicely. What source are you using? If you use the global input, you can use Volume Controls per zone to control volume. A preamp or a source that has its own volume control, such as Sonos, can be used as well. There was an issue that may currently be an issue when using a source with volume control, like Sonos, that screws up the input on the amp. I had it happen on one job, in which the sound was completely distorted. They sent out a new amp to replace the bad one. I have not had that issue since though (about 2 years now).
Post 18 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 15:09
iimig
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Using a preamp to boost gain into the amplifier to make up for it's lack of power is not a great gain structure or system design. We need to know more about what is driving the amplifier to help.

If a multi-channel amplifier has been spec'd, I have to assume there is a multi-zone switcher or source behind it. That switcher or source will be capable of outputting a -10dbV signal when turned up all the way. That is as high as a line level signal should go in the consumer electronics world. That is as high as the amplifier ever expects to see. Although you can boost that signal, doing so will increase distortion and is almost guaranteed to clip the amplifier. Which as we all know, is how you blow speakers.

I can't imagine a scenario where the outputs of the 12ch Episode amp don't have enough power, assuming this is a house or light commercial environment, you are using traditional switching/source components, traditional 4-8 ohm speakers, and everything is connected properly.
The less I say, the smarter I will appear
Post 19 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 15:37
sceneselect
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I had three EA-AMP-12D-70's die within a month of each other. Conveniently they were all at 2.5 years from installation. Out of warranty, out of production and no repair support from Snap.
These were two different jobs, and the first amp Snap replaced no questions asked. The other two amps were from a second job and since I have no support am basically forcing my customer into two AD-8 from RTI.
This fiasco made me look like I was selling unreliable internet products that a lawyer crafted the warranty policy based on the exact Built in Obsolescence of the product. Oh wait- I was.
Post 20 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 16:06
tweeterguy
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The warranty is only 2 years? I had to look this up to believe it. A power amp should carry a 5 year warranty, 3 at the minimum!
Post 21 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 22:02
iimig
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The non "A" models had a lot of issues unfortunately. I'm surprised they didn't fail earlier first of all, and secondly that they didn't replace them under warranty.

The models that carry an "A" at the end don't have problems in my experience.
The less I say, the smarter I will appear
Post 22 made on Sunday January 5, 2014 at 23:30
chuch jr
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Thanks guys for your input. Here's some more details:

Since it's a subcontract job, we have only been given all the details about 1 week before job. This means we were not involved in picking which products are recommended for the customer. Which is similar to when any retail customer calls & hires us to install what ever they just bought at the big box store. In either case, we take proper planning very seriously. Meaning that everything needs to work toghether when job is done. For example poor planning is> showing up on a TV hang and customer bought mount that don't fit &/or HDMI cable they bought is too short. In this case, the dealer was selling SNAP 120 watt 70v amp with 16 Current Audio 70v outdoor speakers that have min tap wattage = 15w. This is a 240 watt load on a 120 watt amp. All being feed by 2 sources = an iPod & Pandora via a Bluetooth rec'r that has line level analogue output.

When I caught the miss match between speaker load and amp size, I started to ponder changing system over to 8 ohms with this 12 channel amp. Dealer we working for, holding off on ordering til he hears back from me. My thoughts are to use the global inputs for each source and connect 2- 8ohm speakers to each of the 1st 8 channels. This will deliver more watts to each speaker and leave the last 4 amp channels open for expansion since customer has now requested change order to add 4 ceiling speakers to an office area.

Since an iPod & the Sony Bluetooth unit do not have decent adjustable line level outs, I believe I will need a preamp. Unless someone can tell me that each channel has a small preamp that is controlled by the little level adjustments on back.

How's this all sound? Anyone want to reccomend a preamp to connect to a Global input?
Post 23 made on Monday January 6, 2014 at 08:56
Mr. Brad
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On January 5, 2014 at 15:37, sceneselect said...
Out of warranty, out of production and no repair support from Snap.

WHAT? They don't have repair support on out of warranty product? Is this true of all their electronics?
Post 24 made on Monday January 6, 2014 at 08:59
lippavisual
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The problem you are going to have using the global inputs is that each channel has a switch that you select between line-in, global A and global B.

So if you're planning on putting Ipod on A and Pandora on B, be prepared to tell the client that they will have to move the little switch in back to change sources to each zone.

Why not just stick to the original plan but get 2 of the 240 watt, 70V amps. Put 8 speakers tapped at 15 watts on each amp to maintain a 50% power budget on each and use the loop out from one amp to the other.

This will provide all gain/volume control and source selection to the front of the equipment, which will be a lot easier to control for the client.
Post 25 made on Monday January 6, 2014 at 09:02
lippavisual
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Not sure about most dealers, but we have/had about 10 or so of these older units out in the field with some commercial clients. Well over 50% of them had the odd channel distortion problem and every single one was replaced with next day shipping, no questions asked.

That's great support.
Post 26 made on Monday January 6, 2014 at 10:53
sceneselect
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On January 6, 2014 at 09:02, lippavisual said...
Not sure about most dealers, but we have/had about 10 or so of these older units out in the field with some commercial clients. Well over 50% of them had the odd channel distortion problem and every single one was replaced with next day shipping, no questions asked.

That's great support..... when it is under warranty
Post 27 made on Monday January 6, 2014 at 13:19
lippavisual
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I guess I forgot to mention they were out of warranty. It's a widespread problem and tech support knows it.
Post 28 made on Wednesday January 8, 2014 at 07:29
CreativeHT
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Chuch jr

I am curious what the final system design ended up being. Sometimes this is the issue subcontracting, installing someone elses bad design.

Of course 70v is the right choice for the install if it is one large back yard and there is no need to ever zone or segregate areas. The power levels based on 15w tap min should have maybe pushed the gear selection to a rackmount commercial amp capable of direct 70v drive like a cdi1000. Otherwise the idea to go with 2 snap 240w amps also gives you the power and poss the ability to break it into 2 zones.

I couldnt think of an inexpensive preamp to use especially since the snap 70v amps have preamps built in. Myself, i would have used a commercial rackmount amp and a commercial dsp such as a Symetrix Jupiter 4 or DBX Zonepro 640.
Post 29 made on Saturday January 11, 2014 at 15:13
chuch jr
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Thanks for your input. So here's what happens next:

I contact Fred H. for his input on preamps to use with the Snap AV 8 ohm - 12 channel amp. Fred gives me pricing on the Parasound PreZ and a basic Calrad Preamp that will suffice if budget is an issue. I submit recommendations to dealer we working for and he replies we now doing job with Control 4. So reviewed their product line up and had him source 2 Control 4 units. These are the 4 zone Power Amp # C4-AMP104 + the 8 zone version # C8-AMP108.

My guys are wiring the job now. Project to be done in about 7-10 days due to main contractor's work schedule. I will check back when done & let every one know how it comes out.
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