Used to work at a union job some 29 years ago. Great wages and benefits but all it took was a lazy ass to get sent home and show up the next day with a picket sign to cost me a weeks worth of wages! They are responsible for improving working conditions but with the labor laws we have now are they really needed?


I wonder how many of the people complaining about Apple's factories own an iPhone or iPad?

IMO this is the ONLY valid concern that anyone should have against/towards unions. Yes it does suck to have 1 guy making twice what everyone else makes even though everyone can do the same work. Yes it does seem silly to have everyone stand around until the one union welder shows up. In Chicago the crane operators have guys who sit in chairs in service elevators pushing the floor button for people. Thats his job. No one but him is allowed to push that button. Silly for sure.

But... without that 1 ridiculous guy sitting there in the elevator or the welder who is taking his time to show up...with an invisible sign up that says "dont F with us" there would have only been 2 or 3 guys working on that pump not 7 or 8. There wouldn't have been a welder on his way because you would have been expected to handle the welding also. You would have been expected to work 18 hours while being paid a salary that you could only spend at the local script market.

I come from Idaho, a right to work state, but now live in CA where Unions exist. My wife HAS to be in a Union and doesn't have a choice. I don't agree with this. I don't think she should HAVE to pay unions dues especially when she doesn't see the benefits. 

We've now been here for 7-8 years and she has been at the same job and had their contract negotiated a number of times. My wife is in the Medical field with a degree and 3 or 4 add-on modalities, but their union is the "Dock Workers Union", as in the docks in Oakland/SF that the deliveries ships come in at. Doesn't really make sense to me. 

From what I can tell, firing someone at her Work place is VERY difficult because of the union, however, not impossible. The biggest problem that I notice is that the Lazy ass workers get the same raise that she gets yet work half as hard (or less). However, its up to the employees to point out the laziness IMO as Management can't see everything. 

Also, here managment sort of sucks making it all even more stupid. Half of the time is just managment trying to make a point against the Union Contract, a lot like High School. 

My wife is an Xray Technologist and they don't currently have a unioin rep for the Xray department (other fields under the same umbrella includes CT, Nuclear Med, Sonography, Mamo, and probably a couple more) So I am encouraging her to take that position. Nobody wants it because its extra work with no pay and apparently the people treat you bad, but IMO its her chance to try to make the most of her career. 

Also, I hope to learn more about how unions work. Overall I think they are beneficial. The company's job is to turn a profit. That is done by paying as little as possible with maximum output. Unions help balance that out. Sure you can argue that if they treated people too bad they would quit and the business would have to change, but maybe not. 

A very simple solution to right to work vs forced union participation is to let employees opt out of the union and any benefits that are negotiated by the unions. So if employee A doesn't want to be part of the union they only receive raises/additional benefits that the employer provides without any involvement from the union.

Not really, the corporations will simply follow GE's lead and keep all of the money oversea's (untaxable income) and then get huge tax refunds all while the general population continues to be bent over.
By the way too much of the money that my company makes already goes to over paid idiots in both Washington and Illinios (highest number of corupt polititions in the country).
Maybe if the greedy SOB's in the goverment would ease up on the taxes then more people could be employed here and they could still get their "fair" share as well. This also lowers unemployment(which reduce's the burden on the tax payer) and increase's spending, which in turn leads to growth.

Unions have become the same bloated bureaucratic monopolies that they originally were created to rail against.

While I lean to the left in certain areas and am more moderate in others, I have personally belonged to a union (hated it) and have also seen how unions can really screw things up. It's sad that large corporations have historically created such work environments that make unions a necessary evil. Unions are evil and typically rarely serve anyone anymore, even their own constituency.

However, I shudder to think what the work environments would end up being like, if unions were suddenly outlawed. It would not be pretty and it would not take long to get back to the working condition disasters we had in the late 19th century or early 20th century.

It's possible that unions could go away but gov't regulation would have to get more teeth and more oppressive and the right wingers certainly don't want that. So if you are right wing and anti union, pick your poison. More Gov't or unions. If your choice is neither, then this will turn into a nation of FoxConns, and we might get our jobs back, but they might not be the jobs we want and there would be a flood of those illegal Mexicans you loathe so much coming in to take those jobs you refuse to do.

So, is it the unions fault someone couldn't properly schedule manpower to repair/install a pump?

I'm pro union. That's just me. Worked for Chrysler for 13 years as UAW and then co-owned JAG which is an IBEW shop (I wasn't in the union).

What you say about Unions has truth to it. Many of the members need to vote to decertify their unions and then recreate them under some more modern guidelines to prevent the pervasive nepotism and cronyism in the upper ranks that has done nothing but ruin the image of organized labor.

That said, believe it or not, Union scale can dictate what non union workers in the same industry make. Non union electricians in St. Louis would not be making the wages they do if not for the unions wage scale.

The same is true for non-unionized auto plants in the south. The wages and benefits are set at a level that removes the motivation to unionize.

I could go on for some time (hell, maybe already have here previously) about the collapse of Chrysler, Daimler's hand in it and how labor was ultimately blamed. The fact of the matter was (using union labor) Chrysler was killing everyone on per-vehicle profits, paying record profit sharing checks and creating vehicles that were in high demand. Daimler single handedly crushed the company, drove the most talented designers (car guys) out, absconded back to germany with cash reserves and stripped the plants of new technology. Cerebus took over, appointed an idiot (Nardelli fired from Home Depot) to run the show. Collapse complete.

Its human nature to become that which you once fought against. After you finally defeat the invaders who raped and pillaged you don't always stop at your border. You often continue forward raping and pillaging your way' as far as you can get.

You have generations of angry individuals who all want their pound of flesh. Then you have those at the top who have gotten used to living at the top and their old cause of making things fair gets replaced by the new cause of building a new wing on to their home.

Union officials should be allowed to serve a couple of terms and then lose all benefits. Same with the government. Imagine if politicians left their office with nothing. Corruption wouldn't be able to tempt those who start with good intentions and the get rich quickers would find a new industry to exploit.

In the UAW...

Appointed positions should be abolished, term limits implemented and wages capped at the highest wage of a person who physically works "the line". All assets held that have no relevance to the purpose of the union should be sold off (ie, black lake).

From an employee protection standpoint, the focus should shift to protecting the "job", not the employee. ie, if the UAW contracts with Ford to provide X amount of workers at Y compensation then the UAW should provide premium workforce for the premium compensation.

The company should be paying a premium not because the bargaining was collective, but because, damnit, go find 4000 better workers to man your plant... I dare you.

Unfortunately, the objective appears to be to maintain the status quo instead of constant self improvement.

You are da hoe :)

I've seen good unions and I've seen bad unions. From my experience, it all depends on who's running it. Unfortunately, corruption is just to easy to get away with in a union. Same goes with idiocy.

Good union:
When I lived in south Florida, I saw the teacher's union fight for the raises the teachers were supposed to get but didn't, all because the school board built a new headquarters with a nice pond and palm trees lining the drive, that went over budget.

Bad union:
Here in Houston, the firefighter's union has fought to inflate salaries, benefits, and pensions for years. I'm not saying firefighters don't deserve to be compensated well, they absolutely do. However, for years we had senior firefighters driving ambulances and making as much as a captain, with the pension to go with it. Now almost 50% of the fire department's budget goes to paying retired firefighters.
When I work for Chilis doing new store opening and remodels, anytime we did a store in a union state up in the north east, I had to hire 3 union guys to do my job for me, and it took the 3 times as long to do it. How is that beneficial?

When we get into debates like this, I seem to notice a common thread.  Typically the people that are "pro" union come from the Midwest where for the last 100 years, our friends and relatives have dealt with Unions, minimum wages, etc.  

The people who are against unions typically have never been in a large union, and don't live in major manufacturing areas, like the Midwest.  

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, so let's not get into that debate.  

It's interesting to me though.

Make no bones about it, Stamp was right.  If there weren't/aren't unions. You'll be treated like Chinese labor.  

Someone made a comment about 13% of the workforce in unions, I don't know if that's correct, and don't care.  But here's why people who aren't in unions benefit from unions.  Unions set and maintain the standard.  Corporations know what employees of X union get paid.  If they don't want a Union shop, they pay as close to X as they can.  

Minimum wage was started in the U.S because corporations in chicago were abusing their workers in sweat shops.  

There are people in Government trying to get rid of unions, and the minimum wage.  Every year it pops up on the news here and there.  Whether it will happen or not  I don't know. I certainly hope not.  

We know they're trying to get rid of unions.  

Then where will you be?  

Make no bones about it, Unions are the only reason why we're not slave labor.   People fought and died fighting for the unions in Detroit and the US.  

Think about that.  Actually died.

If they didn't think it was important, why would they be willing to die to get it?  

they actually wouldnt double in costs.  There was a report that the prices would go up approx. 7-15% depending on the products, while paying an American workforce.  What would happen however, is Golden parachutes, and record profits of Billions of dollars per year would go out the window. Companies would still make a profit, it would just be smaller.  

But we live in a Global Economy, and it's not going away.  Just consider America as the front office, India as Engineering and the far east manufacturing, shipping , and receiving.  

Until India and China build their own front office (happening right now) and all we have left is stories about the good old days when most Americans had access to running water, electricity and roads.