I've gone through harmony, Nevo, urc, and RTI. In that order.
I finally graduated to crestron and will not turn back.

If your control solution is anywhere near $1000 I would go with crestron.
More of a learning curve but once you know it it's a better world.

Ip control. So you can use an Onkyo 509 or 609 receiver and control it over the network. Means it doesn't take up any ir or rs232 ports.
Use an lg or sharp tv and control it via rs232. Again - no sloppy looking emitters on tv. In the end only 2 or 3 devices use ir which is great. use TiVo box and control that over ip as well.

Add in the optional crestron iOS apps and the client will be very happy.
Beyond that these systems are the basis for expansion with lighting and thermostat control.

You can use the prodigy wizard software or do everything custom.
I have so many similar jobs that I do them custom, and just duplicate files for a new job and tweak them to match.

Motech,
customer bought a TV. Then consulted with a guy I know who used to run a chain of A/V stores here in SoCal, and has an Integra 40.2 and a set of that friend's new RSL speakers (friend owns RSL). I'm then called in. Component choices are already done. But thanks for the checklist.



Nobody in the URC Forums has answered my complaint that there's no way to tell from any info on the site as to which remotes are about to be obsolete, which are cheaper, etc.

I assumed from a thread here that the 880 should be replaced by the 900. Nobody has yet said anything except you, Tom, to indicate that the reason for this was anything other than the 880 becoming obsolete.

I mean, they still sell the 850 -- is it as obsolete as it looks? Are they intending to discontinue it? Are they just going to make it forever? Functionally the 850 pretty much covers everything except favorites (and the LCD might do those, I'm not sure), but its wide top makes it look clunky and feel out of date. To me.

Someone else pointed out correctly that I thought the 980 had a touchscreen. Fortunately they don't want to bother to pay either for color or for a screen where artwork can be customized.

But can the 900 be set up with a list of favorites, maybe scrolling, in the LED section? Can the 880 do that?

Stay away from the 880. Its a service call nightmare. They don't like to connect to your computer and I've had more of them fail than any other model.

Bless you, Fins. Seriously.

Agree 100%. I like URC but I've never gotten that "custom" vibe from their products. I think one of the big reasons URC can better than RTI is because they have a bigger backing. Things can be brought to market or corrected much faster. When a new trendy product comes out they are able to adapt much quicker were RTI STRUGGLES!


I've toyed with the idea of making the switch but I simply don't have the time. If sure there is a fairly large learning curve and I simply don't feel that reinventing the wheel for us would be beneficial.


With the XP6, I think the comparisons are similar if not favor RTI. The processor is capable of controlling any large number of equipment over IP. I know that Prodigy has a limit to what it can do and I know that limit can be pushed. But the XP6 has more horsepower than the XP8 making it more than capable. The more people who have the SDK the more successful RTI will become.

I think the obvious reasons for choosing Crestron is their support. They are a large company with a lot of really good engineers that are capable of delivering a great product. RTI is much smaller and do not have the man power or resources needed to be a true leader. I still think that RTI is a great company that make some pretty nice remotes.

The pmc3 is way more powerful then an xp6. Lots more drivers/modules available for crestron as well.

RTI still doesn't have iOS apps or android apps.
Still a long way behind. I lost faith in RTI long ago.

you mean they don't like to connect to your computer.  mine works fine ;)

O my old laptop they were really a problem. Sometimes taking many attempts, rebooting remotes, restarting the software, etc to get them to connect. Especially the first version 880. If you let the screen time out, shut everything down and start over. With my new laptop, they are better. But still problematic. And I've had more 880's go bad than even t2c's.

I am sure you meant the other way around?

The XP8 is way over priced. I think RTI has the best software but they are a shit company and their support is horrible, especially when they have known issues with remotes and still expect us to pay for the repairs. F. U. RTI! Anyone else hear about a lawsuit against their manufacturer? And they still want us to pay for that? Wake up people, drop RTI. I don't care if you think it is the best solution out there. I don't care if they become the least expensive, most profitable solution either, there is something called integrity that this company needs to learn about.

I would suspect that the majority of you would not even think of trying to make your customer pay for your mistakes or the mistakes of your subcontractors? Well that is what RTI is doing to us and it blows.

They had a bad batch of T2+ batteries that swelled up and died within months of installation and RTI did not care. As a result I had to replace a few dozen batteries prematurely at my own cost because unlike RTI I would never try to pass that on to my customers. They also had a run of bad solder joints on the T2+ as well where the battery connector would just pull right off of the board. Again they wanted to charge to repair this. Luckily that was something I could repair myself but it happened to half a dozen remotes. I know this was an issue because I had a few broken and chewed on pieces (dogs!) that I tried purposely to rip the connector off and could not.

Then there is the T2C problems that most of us have experienced that I believe is what their lawsuit is about and again if they were not bad out of the box, they would charge to repair. Well I might act like a d!ck around here, but when a 6 month old remote dies I would never ever expect the client to pay for it to be repaired so guess who ate the cost of new remotes? Finally they announce new products long before they will ever see the light of day and this includes an entirely new line of remotes. WTF? And they have a 4 zone multi room controller? What a joke.

While URC used to have its issues, they have long since worked them out. They stand behind their products and will replace them for a flat fee. I would admit that their software is a little clunky but it gets the job done.

As custom installers and integrators we need to stand behind manufacturers that stand behind us, and in this thread the choice is clearly URC.

Yup, I meant the other way around and didn't realize it.

I am actually bringing up ancient history here, but the old vacuum tube manuals used to have a column by the tube number that specified whether it was a bad idea to use a particular tube in a new design.

I'm looking for some kind of overall URC model recommendation like that, since the simple-minded but accurate


kind of model number order doesn't exist with URC.

Is the 880 an update of the 850, so I should not use the 850, but the 880 instead? Is the 900 a newer or better model than the 8XX models, so I should prefer the 900s? Apparently not.

How does one find out?

It's a pretty safe bet that anything in CCP is current and going forward (well, maybe with the exception of the KP900). Officially, the TX1000 and MX810 (and MX810i) are discontinued, but I don't know too may installers losing any sleep over these models.

URC maintains their models as long as they sell enough to justify bringing more in, just look at the MX500- still available thru a prominent national distributor and direct. Ultimately they will could make some price moves that could shuffle the deck a bit, but for now it remains a pretty broad line with very similar price points.

It's funny how some programmers still love the MX850- 10 LCD buttons, some like the comfy grip and big buttons, but only 20 devices and serial port programming. As for the MX880, it is the color step-up from the MX900. The model number coding is what throws most people.


The MX880 has a dedicated favorites button that will allow for multiple pages of favs with their color icons.

 I have tons of 880's in the field and have never ran into any of the problems Fins speaks of.  (I'm knocking on wood as i type this, hope i don't get a service call for a dead remote tomorrow!)  I think its a very powerful remote with a great button layout.  I've had great reviews from clients on these remotes.  I especially like the fact that URC uses words on their buttons versus icons for things like play, pause, stop.  So many of my customers appreciate the little things like that.  I can't count the amount of times i would have to lose screen real lestate on a T2C b/c customers requested those buttons on the screen with the words vs using the hard buttons w/ the icons.  Its insane how many people just don't get the icons.

I'd also recommend the 880 vs the 980 b/c of time of programming.  The 980 is more powerful and you can do alot more with buttons & icons on the screen but it can take much longer to program b/c of it.  The 880 is a bit limited with the screen but after using so many of them I think that it is a benefit.

Just one mans opinions.

That doesn’t mean always use brand x for everything. URC makes some very nice remotes, but doesn’t offer a solution that requires a whole house centralized processor. The new total control products are interesting but take out a lot of what I consider to be “CUSTOM” from the equation. This isn’t a bad thing, but they follow the same methodology as their previous 2-way remotes (You can’t mix and match different 2-way modules onto a single page or device).

We as custom integrators need to have a good understanding of the requirements and deliver a solution that meets those requirements. At the end of the day, the only thing that is standing behind you is your wallet. I have had some of the worst and best support from RTI, Crestron and URC. The bad experiences always end the same way; more money out of my pocket.


Unless things have changed the word scale and Prodigy can’t be used in the same sentence. This takes powerful out of the equation in my mind for the vast majority of the installs that I do.

They do have a 1 year warranty so.......

I think the worst part of RTI is their business practices and not their products. They have a good enough product to be one of the top solutions in our industry and they just don't "appear" to want to be there. They need to communicate and listen to dealers more.

They taken care of me whenever I've had an issue whether it was in warranty or out of warranty. The battery thing sucks but it's a $35 dollar part. Just throw one in every bid.

The AD4 is a joke. It's nice for what it is but it certainly isn't custom. They should have made a product that non-RTI guys would want. Hey, how about 4 50 watts per channel zones, line outs, and separate local inputs for each zone. Even at $100 more it would be at a great price point.