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Topic:
Need punch down tips for Leviton modular data jacks...
This thread has 30 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Sunday November 21, 2010 at 21:31
WhiteVan Lifestyle
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On November 21, 2010 at 14:44, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
I've used the orange thing and usually find it easier to hold the connector in my hand while I'm under the counter looking up, punching sideways with the tool suggested by SWOInstaller.

There's no beating a real punchdown tool. They're stupid expensive but come with "bits" for CAT type punch and old-fashioned 66 block punches.

Exactly!
I dont understand how anyone in our business doesn't have a punch tool. I have the EZ tool from ICC but have not brought myself to using it yet.
I couldn't picture life without this [Link: idealindustries.com]
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Post 17 made on Sunday November 21, 2010 at 21:34
Hasbeen
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On November 21, 2010 at 19:12, william david design said...
Well, guys, I must have been pretty lax using the gray punch down. My brother the IT guy said that the punch down tools were directional?


Yeah, one side of the punch down tool blade is a bit longer than the other....The longer side goes to the outside of the keystone and cuts the wire when you punch it.  Pretty common mistake when you first start punching them down.  After you do a few, you'll get used to making sure the long side of the blade is on the outside of the keystone.

I've never used anything but a punchdown tool on keystones...I did see the snapav tool on the site about a month ago, and thought it was interesting but I don't think it would work for me, I don't punch down like other guys do.  I do 2 wires at a time, I think most people place them all and punch them all. 

I think they key to using a punchdown on keystones is the length of the CAT5 or CAT6...I always leave enough in the gangbox so that when I come back to punch down,  the wire will make it to the floor where I can easily punch it.  If you try to punch it while holding it in your hand it tears up your hands.
Post 18 made on Sunday November 21, 2010 at 22:09
39 Cent Stamp
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double post

Last edited by 39 Cent Stamp on November 21, 2010 22:32.
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Post 19 made on Sunday November 21, 2010 at 22:32
39 Cent Stamp
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On November 21, 2010 at 19:12, william david design said...
Well, guys, I must have been pretty lax using the gray punch down. My brother the IT guy said that the punch down tools were directional? What about Cat6? Can I use the Cat5 jacks or need to find Cat6? I know the EZ crimp does Cat5 and Cat6 and I have both ends from EZ. It is a great crimp tool. Too bad I feel like a dummy with keystone jacks not consistently punching down. I would think Cat6 wire would be easier to punch through the jacket but maybe I have the guage backwards.
The only reason why I used Cat6 wire for this client was he is an IT guy and wanted the best wire. I thought that Cat6 was redundant because the speed of Cat5 exceeded the other links in the data chain--router, internet provider, etc.

The only thing i can think of is that your brother is referring to the cutting blade. If you dont have it pointed the right direction you cut the wire on the inside :). If you are using the gray plastic tool there is no cutting blade so they are not directional. Every punch down tool i have owned is a "4 in 1". There is a male and female with and without the cutting blade.

I have never heard these referred to as male and female. I made that up just now to differentiate between the two. 1 is for jacks like the Leviton Keystone and the other is for 110 Blocks.

Male



Female




You have to use Cat6 connectors, Cat6 patch panels, Cat6 patch cables with Cat6. Everything has to be Cat6 for it to pass. If the entire thing is Cat6 and you use a Cat5e patch cable from the wall to the PC you no longer have a Cat6 run.

In my experience Cat6 is a pita to work with compared to Cat5e. I have used EZRJ45 cat5 connectors with Cat6 here at my house with test cables. It takes forever to get the conductors into the connector. Usually harder to straighten out the conductors also. My uneducated guess would be that you had so many failures because you were trying to jam Cat6 into the Cat5e jacks. It can be done but (ask me how i know) but its difficult.

We run Cat5e and Cat6 everywhere. The Cat6 is for Voice/Data. We haven't experimented with HDMI baluns (and wont) but every other thread i see is full of guys saying you should use Cat6 with them.
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Post 20 made on Sunday November 21, 2010 at 22:36
39 Cent Stamp
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On November 21, 2010 at 14:44, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
I've used the orange thing and usually find it easier to hold the connector in my hand while I'm under the counter looking up, punching sideways with the tool suggested by SWOInstaller.

I used to be able to position the jack right on the tip of my index finger while punching down with the other hand. I did a job once with so many jacks that my hands were bleeding by the end. That was the last time. I always use a block of wood or the coaster. Mine is black not orange though :).

There's no beating a real punchdown tool. They're stupid expensive but come with "bits" for CAT type punch and old-fashioned 66 block punches.

They are not expensive now. You can get one at Home Depot for around $20 and you can find several brands online for around $20. Every time i walk into home depot i shake my head thinking.. "where the hell was all this stuff 15 years ago when i needed it".
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 21 made on Sunday November 21, 2010 at 22:40
39 Cent Stamp
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On November 21, 2010 at 21:31, WhiteVan Lifestyle said...
Exactly!
I dont understand how anyone in our business doesn't have a punch tool. I have the EZ tool from ICC but have not brought myself to using it yet.
I couldn't picture life without this [Link: idealindustries.com]

I have had my punch down tool for over 15 years. Easily one of my most used hand tools.

These are the hand tools that i use the most.

[Link: wiremunky.com]

[Link: wiremunky.com]

[Link: wiremunky.com]
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Post 22 made on Monday November 22, 2010 at 01:18
Neurorad
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EZRJ45 is great, except for the outside 2 wires, with cat6. Always have to bend them back and forth to break them off, and then they're sticking out very slightly. Hasn't been a problem yet, according to the tester and everyday use, but I know those 2 slightly protruding outer wire 'nubs' will hit me some day.

I'm getting better at wrestling the male connector up to, and beyond, the cut jacket edge. I grab the flat wires sticking out the tip with a lineman's pliers, and really work the connector up.

I think it was you, Stamp, or maybe AnthonyZ, who recommended twisting the ethernet wires together, after the crimp tool is in position, to avoid the hassle of 8 small bits of wire on the dropcloth/carpet/floor.

I also found that trimming the lined up wires straight across is helpful, after straightening them, and prior to threading the male connector over the wires.
TB A+ Partner
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
Post 23 made on Monday November 22, 2010 at 08:29
mariomp
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I used to use Leviton Keystone jacks with this tool  for years.

If you haven't used it, you need to try it. Got to ADI or wherever you get your stuff from, and try it, you won't go back to individual wire punching, I guarantee it. I still have my punchdown tool, mostly for 110 blocks, but not for the RJ11/14/45 jacks, that's for sure. I rather walk all the way to a van for my crimper if I have to make up more than 1 jack.

I recently ran out of the jacks (had a bags and bags of those) and checked on current prices of them.

Then I looked at SanpAV's ones. The  available here
were cheaper, with better wire layout (568A & B wires only change on one side), and they just work.
I bought their crimper  and with 100 connectors, just so you know, they come 25 to a box, I still saved money and that included the purchase of the tool.

I like Leviton tool a little better; it was a more open design, to where the extra leads that were getting clipped off didn't get in a way of the tool as much.
Also, SanpAV's tool 'pulls' the jack out of the seat on the opening stroke, but that's easy to manage, just hold the cable down. 
Overall, I like the tool and will continue using SanpAV tool and their connectors.

I have 2 of the Leviton crimping tools and 1 was only used for few connectors. I'll keep it on the van for a while as I still have several Leviton connectors in different colors. 

Seriously, get one of the tools from your buddy, or disty to try out; you owe it to yourself.

Mario
Post 24 made on Monday November 22, 2010 at 09:06
39 Cent Stamp
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On November 22, 2010 at 01:18, Neurorad said...
I think it was you, Stamp, or maybe AnthonyZ, who recommended twisting the ethernet wires together, after the crimp tool is in position, to avoid the hassle of 8 small bits of wire on the dropcloth/carpet/floor.

I also found that trimming the lined up wires straight across is helpful, after straightening them, and prior to threading the male connector over the wires.

I use a pair of PANDUIT - CWST cutters to cut a straight line across the conductors before trying to insert them into the connector. The EZ tool has a slot built in that you can use to do this but i find it awkward and its much faster to just change tools. Heavy duty scissors work well also.

The two end wires have always been a pain in the neck but you can usually rock them back and forth and they pop right off. It starts a little bit after you change blades. I have had the same blade on for 4 years now and its still sharp. I dont know if there is anything they can do to redesign it. Either way its much faster to use vs the alternative. I was pretty good with those but most of the filed terminated connectors i have seen have a quarter inch gap between the connector and the cable jacket. This issue is resolved with the EZ products.
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Post 25 made on Monday November 22, 2010 at 10:45
jrainey
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On November 21, 2010 at 09:18, jimstolz76 said...
We use SnapAV and just started using their keystone crimp tool, which is ridiculously nice and I wish I would've gotten one years ago... god knows how many times I jammed my punchdown tool into my palm, or sliced my finger open with it, or punched down on drywall and left an impression, or punched down on a plastic electric outlet cover and snapped it in half, etc. (don't act like you guys haven't done any of that)



Only works with their keystones (may work with others, who knows). Leviton may have a similar tool.

I started using this tool a little more than a year ago and will never "punch down" a keystone again. Many fewer wounds in the field....
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
Post 26 made on Tuesday November 23, 2010 at 03:52
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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On November 21, 2010 at 22:36, 39 Cent Stamp said...
They are not expensive now. You can get one at Home Depot for around $20 and you can find several brands online for around $20. Every time i walk into home depot i shake my head thinking.. "where the hell was all this stuff 15 years ago when i needed it".

I bought my second one 20 years ago after losing my old one from 1985. It's been around at phone supply distributors forever.

On November 21, 2010 at 19:12, william david design said...
Well, guys, I must have been pretty lax using the gray punch down. My brother the IT guy said that the punch down tools were directional?

The little gray crap plastic one doesn't cut off wires, so it's not directional. "Directional" is best shown by the image Stamp provided. One end of the tool has a knife made for cutting off the wire, and if you position this the wrong way around, you will neatly cut the wire off the connector and make a reliable punch down connection to a scrap of wire. The other end of that tool has no blade. It's made for daisy-chaining connections, although that's not done with any data connections.

What about Cat6? Can I use the Cat5 jacks or need to find Cat6? I know the EZ crimp does Cat5 and Cat6 and I have both ends from EZ. It is a great crimp tool.

If you've GOT to put a connector onto CAT6 and all you have is CAT5 connectors, you won't meet spec (and often don't have to). When you separate the conductors, pull the sleeve back a bit and cut off the inner X piece, then let the sleeve slide back out. This allows you to make a strain-relieved connection to the wires.

Too bad I feel like a dummy with keystone jacks not consistently punching down. I would think Cat6 wire would be easier to punch through the jacket but maybe I have the guage backwards.

I don't understand what you mean.

The only reason why I used Cat6 wire for this client was he is an IT guy and wanted the best wire. I thought that Cat6 was redundant because the speed of Cat5 exceeded the other links in the data chain--router, internet provider, etc.

CAT6 wire isn't the best unless you learn how to install it and you use the correct parts. And I haven't looked at its frequency specs to see whether it's better than CAT5; I jsut expect it to be, despite what you say here.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
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OP | Post 27 made on Tuesday November 23, 2010 at 07:58
william david design
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On November 23, 2010 at 03:52, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...

The little gray crap plastic one doesn't cut off wires, so it's not directional. "Directional" is best shown by the image Stamp provided. One end of the tool has a knife made for cutting off the wire, and if you position this the wrong way around, you will neatly cut the wire off the connector and make a reliable punch down connection to a scrap of wire. The other end of that tool has no blade. It's made for daisy-chaining connections, although that's not done with any data connections.

Ernie, I didn't pick the right terminology in my post. Stamp figured it out and replied to my query in his reply, above.
I don't understand what you mean.

I thought Cat6 was a thicker guage than Cat5. My reasoning was if it IS thicker and I Punched it down on a Cat5 keystone as far as it could go then I would think it would be a better connection based on the larger diameter of Cat6;
Defectus tuus consilium carpere discrimen mihi non constituit.
Post 28 made on Tuesday November 23, 2010 at 10:22
mariomp
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On November 23, 2010 at 07:58, william david design said...
I thought Cat6 was a thicker gauge than Cat5. My reasoning was if it IS thicker and I Punched it down on a Cat5 keystone as far as it could go then I would think it would be a better connection based on the larger diameter of Cat6;

Be careful, Cat6 is thicker, and the blades of cat5 jack are spaced so that they nick, or cut the jacket of the individual Cat5 conductors. Putting bigger wire might nick the copper to the point where if you work the Cat5 wire enough, it might break right at the pinch point.
I doubt that will happen on the first or even tenth move of the wire but it could.

If you want to run Cat6 wire, than just use Cat6 jack
Post 29 made on Tuesday November 23, 2010 at 16:53
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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Look up "insulation displacement" (ID) to see how it works. That's the kind of connection made with any kind of punchdown, not limited to telephone or data, and not limited to solid wire.

In every case, the connector's tine spacing is made for ONE particular type of wire and cannot be reliably used with a different size or type of wire. Stranded wire has a larger overall diameter than the same gauge solid because gauge is determined by the overall cross section of the conductors (not counting the space between conductors), but its individual wires can move, so it requires a slightly smaller tine spacing.

Use a connector made for the gauge wire that you are using or expect to make a free service call. The wrong size can give you loose wires or wire breaks.

Also, CAT6 does not HAVE to be 23 gauge. That overly wise and perfect Wikipedia says it "is sometimes made with 23 gauge" wire, so if you expect it WILL be made with that, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Read labels. Read specs before you order.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 30 made on Tuesday November 23, 2010 at 18:41
jimstolz76
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On November 23, 2010 at 16:53, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
Also, CAT6 does not HAVE to be 23 gauge. That overly wise and perfect Wikipedia says it "is sometimes made with 23 gauge" wire, so if you expect it WILL be made with that, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Read labels. Read specs before you order.

+1, I was about to post this.
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