I personally don't think installers should tell the customer that the salesman did them wrong (even if they did). Definitely no commission for doing so, even if it means an upgrade sale. I do think the installers should reap the benefits of additional sales, above what the salesman sold to the customer.

That's a big 10-4 there avad....the installers should never cut down a fellow employee!! Doing so makes your entire company look bad.

I hope I didnt give the idea that by giving ideas to the customer that they didnt know about or by upselling that I was implicating the salesperson on a wrong doing...I just let customers know about hot items that are out (PVT's and color prontos and such) and I plant the seed of knowledge and curiosity so they read and learn and better yet CRAVE!.....
Cha Ching!/////////sale in motion!

I guess I was talking to Brent...

I should have worded my post more properly, I never meant to imply that I told the client that the salesman was an idiot, or even meant to do them wrong, It was just that after talking with the customer and realizing that they aren't very techno-savy (along with having little concerns about the costs of things,) I realized that they would be much happier with the Pronto and offered my suggestion, which he found to be a good one.

In reality it's just that the shop I work for never deals in the Pronto because they never had anyone that could program the thing, till now. The sale and prewire had been done before I even joined the Company.

Another side note: Are all the distributers in No. Cal. out of stock on the Pronto 2mb or just the one's that we currently deal with?

This message was edited by Brent Southam on 01/05/02 02:28.04.

I think I am going to try offering my installer 1/3 of the total labor. No base. I have him at a salary that is much too high for the amount of work that he is doing. The quality is great, but the speed is aweful. We had an understanding that the beginning of this year the structure would change to him getting a percentage of the business.

I think that he wastes a lot of time on the job, to the point where it would be hard to bill a customer for 4 hours, when the job could have been done in 2. We need to stay competetive.

Also, If we get to where we need more men, he will be able to run the crew and still get 1/3, while the help is paid out of that 1/3. This will mean that he has to keep the help working to be efficient. If all goes well, he can make a ton of money.

What are your thoughts on this plan.
Jason

I'm in Ohio and the distributors here are out of Pronto's too.
On another note, What does everyone thing about Philips not supporting the pronto if you use the Pronto Edit software (Which they put in the box).
Dale

This message was edited by Dale Schultz on 01/08/02 07:23.15.

What is a decent hourly wage for an experienced installer these days? Keep in mind that there might be a % commision involved. Thanks for you replys.

I think that really depends on the part of the country you're in, I live in a rather small town in No. CA and make quite a bit less than what I would expect if I lived in a larger city. (But I only pay $500/mo. for rent. ) But right now I make $7.00 per hour when I'm on the clock, + 3.50 per hour that I'm on a job site and billing the customer, + %commission on what I sell (i.e. upgrades or interconnect etc.) The boss likes to complicate the pay scale, no body in the shop gets paid that same way.

Again I think that what I get is quite low, but I'm new to the company still, and It's not all that bad for the area. I do plan on asking for a raise once I've been with the company for 6 mo. or so.

Too better answer the question...If I were to pay my self what I think I'm worth I think it would be closer to $18, +%commission. Am I just dreaming when I think I'm worth that much?

I run my own shop and continually struggle with installer compensation. A good installer can be worth up to $30/hr. The problem is that egos being what they are, I have yet to meet an installer that didn't think he was God's gift to electronics. I have therefore separated installers into three levels.

level 1: basic wire monkey. Knows how to drill holes. knows difference between wire types. can read schematics and test wire. ($10-$15/hr)

level 2: level 1 + knows how to connect and calibrate equipment, set up IR systems, assemble equipment racks.
($15-$20/hr)

level 3: intimately knows all equipment including computers, projectors, etc. Can perform ISF calibration and program Crestron and other remotes. Also has the ability to perform advanced trouble shooting such as power line noise and ground loop problems. (>$20/hr)

The main thing is that each level needs to be able to test and document their phase. They DO NOT get paid to fix their own mistakes. If something happens to the installation in the construction process I need to be able to back charge to fix it or I won't be able to pay the installer.

Lastly, I pay a 5% commision on the total amount of the upgrade. Of course I then have to have a talk with salesperson about why the upgrade wasn't sold at the initial presentation.

I have a question for all of you that state that you do not pay your installers to fix their mistakes. I don't have a problem with it (as long as it is done fairly, with the realization that some mistakes are normal, and is not used to avoid paying them), although it is not how I would handle the situation personally. However, I think the government would have a major problem with it. As an employer, you do not have the (legal) right to expect people to work for free because you think they should have done their job better (even if you are right). You do have the right to expect (and warn them) to do their jobs properly; if they do not you have the right to fire them.

Please don't misunderstand me, this not an attack on any of you. But I have researched many of these employment issues, and unless you know something I do not (and I am asking you if that is the case), you could run into some serious governmental problems.

Thanks


This message was edited by QQQ on 01/29/02 21:21.13.

Hmmmm....

It seems to me that you are all putting way to much thought into this. I'll admit that when I owned my own install company I was forever trying to find ways to stop the madness, but then I was always underfunded.
Had I better money management skills I would have done what we do at my current company:

A flat, hourly wage (starts around $13/hour, depending on experience). Installers come in to the office every morning and punch in. They are paid from then till they return and punch out. To cover this we charge enough hourly from our installs, as well as a trip charge to cover the drive times to and from the site.

We have a regular raise schedule, plus full benefits. Truly ambitious installers can take (and pass) certification exams for bonuses, raises, and commission. Our guys work Monday-Friday and usually get 40+ hours per week.

BTW, I'm looking for a couple of relatively low experience installers to train in our system. We're adding 6 more stores this year and I'll be needing installers. Anyone interested? (This is in the Bay Area of California)

Call me at 510-477-3465 or email [email protected]

Jeff Wagner
Magnolia Hi-Fi
Custom Installation Manager-California

Presumably you don't want to run afoul of the fair labor act. There are numerous "exemptions" such as executive, administrative and professional workers; salespeople; computer specialists, apprentices, and some others, but I doubt installers would qualify. If your installer is an independent contractors they may be exempt (unless all of their income comes from one source).

The Fair Labor Act does allow for pay on a piece-rate. As long as you end up paying the minumum wage (including time and a half for overtime), you may be ok on that basis.

How about a quarterly incentive based on company profitability? We pay fair hourly rates and give excellent benefits. As a motivator we pay a quarterly bonus based on profitability. This means everyone from the sales person to the installer is responsible for the performance of the company.

To Robert & Brent
As a business owner this is just the kind of outlook I have and try to instill in my employees. Take the time and do it RIGHT. Do overs are a loss, no matter what you charge or how you look at it.