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| Topic: | Audio break - in period for new speakers This thread has 56 replies. Displaying posts 46 through 57. |
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| Post 46 made on Tuesday November 3, 2009 at 23:12 |
2nd rick Super Member |
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Posts: | August 2002
3,375 |
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On November 3, 2009 at 22:26, audioslayve said...
I bet those coughcoughdynaudioscoughcough I mean.. Totems are great!
Here's an odd concept.... Totem has been making loudpspeakers for sale into the N. America market with Dynaudio's drivers for longer than Dynaudio has.
Chew on that one.
Also, when I was working at the retail store, we toyed with adding a "boutique" line to our mix to supplement Paradigm and B&W. A couple reps brought in speakers for a shoot out to determine what would be our next speaker line.
We listened to Totem Model Ones and Dynaudio's little 2-way with what appeared to be very similar drivers. The Totems outclassed the Dyne's from several aspects, although these were Dyne's first US models.
Ultimately, we chose to add more SKUs from Paradigm's then new Reference line and B&W's intermediate lines (P series and CDM).
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2nd Rick on RC and IntegrationPros.
cinemascope on AVS (but I rarely go back there) |
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| Post 47 made on Wednesday November 4, 2009 at 04:09 |
WhiteVan Lifestyle Super Member |
Joined:
Posts: | July 2007
2,661 |
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On November 3, 2009 at 22:26, audioslayve said...
I bet those coughcoughdynaudioscoughcough I mean.. Totems are great!
Dynaudio would not be what they are without Vince!
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This post has not been EBG approved and makes no claim as to the proper use of English, spelling or punctuation. |
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| Post 48 made on Wednesday November 4, 2009 at 08:28 |
Ernie Bornn-Gilman Elite Member |
Joined:
Posts: | December 2001
12,933 |
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I, for one, was thrilled to read that ten years after the 99.9999% oxygen-free copper wires were installed, one could strip back the insulation and they would appear in their original silver color.
Either that's silver that has somehow not tarnished over time, or it's tin over copper. In either case, those are not then copper wires, but tinned or silver plated copper. That seems like a big deal to leave out.
As for testing each speaker against a standard, when I worked at Marantz around 1980, we tested all speakers against a standard. At the bottom end, each $98 Imperial speaker was tested against a standard! And when several of those deviated from the standard, we would not only keep them from going out, we would kick in the back (all parts were glued in place) to see what the problem was. Usually one of the North Americans paid a North American wage had wired a bunch of crossovers wrong or had connected a bunch of drivers out of phase.
Testing each speaker against a standard is simply not a big deal. It's sorta like seeing if a car will roll without squeaking: not hard to do and with pretty obvious results.
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I have ACTUALLY said this a thousand times: We can't help you much without the make and model of everything involved in the problem! Unless you want a vague answer. Or none. Your move. |
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| Post 49 made on Wednesday November 4, 2009 at 10:15 |
Totem Regular Member |
Joined:
Posts: | January 2009
185 |
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On November 3, 2009 at 22:26, audioslayve said...
I bet those coughcoughdynaudioscoughcough I mean.. Totems are great!
Did you know that Totem is the only speaker company that stil can get drivers from Dynaudio? Do you know why? Because Vince spent a lot of his own money helping Dyn develop their drivers and getting more out of there drivers than they ever thought possible. The Dyn drivers they use are only made for Totem, they do not go into Dynaudio speakers. A little humble pie would help that cough.
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| Post 50 made on Wednesday November 4, 2009 at 10:28 |
Robert Parker Long Time Member |
Joined:
Posts: | March 2004
84 |
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On November 3, 2009 at 21:40, Mr. Stanley said...
Are a lot of AVS Forum guys made up of fat, angry, lonely, unemployed, losers, living in their parent's basements, with nothing better to do than sit around in their underwear, eating cold pizza, and debating endlessly online, for the sake of debate and nothing else???
39 can you create a pic of this image???
Please God NO!!! I need my eyes.
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| Post 51 made on Wednesday November 4, 2009 at 17:01 |
2nd rick Super Member |
Joined:
Posts: | August 2002
3,375 |
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On November 3, 2009 at 21:40, Mr. Stanley said...
And:
Are a lot of AVS Forum guys made up of fat, angry, lonely, unemployed, losers, living in their parent's basements, with nothing better to do than sit around in their underwear, eating cold pizza, and debating endlessly online, for the sake of debate and nothing else???
39 can you create a pic of this image???
It's not even necessary Stan...
The image of the master of World of Warcraft from South Park will suffice for this application as well.
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2nd Rick on RC and IntegrationPros.
cinemascope on AVS (but I rarely go back there) |
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| Post 52 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 11:35 |
BigPapa Senior Member |
Joined:
Posts: | October 2005
1,363 |
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On November 3, 2009 at 16:31, Totem said...
Try bringing up any of these subjects over at AVSforums and then run for cover
This thread is reading like an AVSForums thread.
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Supreme Overlord of the KnuckleDragging Wire Pullers |
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| Post 53 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 12:08 |
BigPapa Senior Member |
Joined:
Posts: | October 2005
1,363 |
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[Link: audioholics.com]
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Supreme Overlord of the KnuckleDragging Wire Pullers |
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| Post 54 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 13:02 |
sofa_king_CI Regular Member |
Joined:
Posts: | June 2009
332 |
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I have to bring something up. Speakers all sound different. I'm not saying that two Totem Model-1's sound different from each other, but they sound different than some B&W Compacts. However, two speakers can have very similar performance on technical measurements. Obviously real TEF measurments and FR plots give a much more realistic picture than just basic specs.
That said, two speakers build and designed differently with very similar measurements sound different from each other. I think there is more art into building speakers as apposed to the science that goes into an amplifier.
I guess my point is that I really would like to see the difference in measurements of a driver before and after break-in, but a complete speakers may just have a more pleasurable sound, even if it just means that your ears get trained to the details of that speaker, as a listener, that seems to still validate a break-in period.
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| Post 55 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 15:11 |
BigPapa Senior Member |
Joined:
Posts: | October 2005
1,363 |
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On November 8, 2009 at 13:02, sofa_king_CI said...
I guess my point is that I really would like to see the difference in measurements of a driver before and after break-in......
The link provided results of testing in the range of .02dB. It's generally accepted that humans perceive differences in sound of 1 dB. If anyone wants to posit that all of these various .0x% differences in various frequencies are perceivable to humans, then that's fine.
Test it with double blind testing and make the case that it matters.
Till then it's complete faith that 100 hr burn-ins make any difference. I know many believe it to be true, especially if they've invested 20 years in believing it. That's fine. But it's on you to prove it. Asking me if I've heard certain speakers or challenging my qualifications by asking me what 2 channel shops compose my pedigree does nothing to deal with the questions at hand. 2 channel shops have an investment to believe in it with no upside to not believing it, just as potential and real purchasers of equipment are vested in believing it.
There are some questions that need to be asked:
-If the sound changed that much in 100 hrs, will it not continue to change for the life of the speaker?
-Can these speakers be tested for 100 hours over a period of 10,000 to document any changes?
-Can people truly perceive these minute differences?
-Are these results the change of air temperature at the time testing?
-Do different types of music wear the speaker differently?
-If there are perceptions in these details will all humans perceive it or only a further statistically insignificant few humans who actually can?
If somebody wants to answer these questions and make an argument that it matters then cool, but it won't prove anything. Till then I'll believe that speakers break in over 10's of seconds by 5-10% after that change .02% over a hundred hours and you won't notice the difference since most humans only perceive diffs of 10% (log).
The alternate to that is that some of you, who may or may not have been in stereo shops setting up these speakers and thereby are 'trained', can tell the difference between a speaker that's been playing for any more than a few minutes and one 'burned in' over several hours, or that these changes aren't merely manufacturing nuances that are within spec.
But I'd not dismiss one of my prospective clients of fine Totems who believed this to be true and wanted my 'burn in' recommendation for them. I'd tell them whatever Totem told me to recommend, if 100 hrs so be it. Enjoy your Totems! I'm giving them what they want, which is not only a fine pair of speakers but a validation of their expense and action, a belief in their product product purchase, peace of mind, satisfaction. There's nothing wrong believing it to be true, nothing wrong with going along with it, and most importantly, does nothing to devalue their enjoyment of the fine speakers.
Just don't tell me it makes one bit of difference. There's nothing wrong with believing it to be true other than the wasted electricity of a 100 hrs, which is ironically as inconsequential to somebody who just spent several $k on a pair of speakers who will want to be absolutely sure they are doing everything they can to maximize the enjoyment and experience of their purchase.
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Supreme Overlord of the KnuckleDragging Wire Pullers |
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| Post 56 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 15:38 |
39 Cent Stamp Loyal Member |
Joined:
Posts: | May 2007
5,410 |
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On October 31, 2009 at 22:42, studio theater said...
I recently purchased Energy brand speakers. The manual suggests that before attempting to tune them in that you should play for the first 100 hours a full range music C.D. This insures that the transducers have time to loosen up before attempting to get optimal performance from your speakers, also they should not be played at high volume levels during this time.
Is this advice worth following? What kind of C.D. should I purchase that covers a full musical range? What db level would be considered high volume?
I have purchased other speakers and have never read this suggestion in a manual any help would be appreciated thank you.
They put that nonsense in the manual for the audiophile morons. I crank the hell out of every pair of speakers i install. Good speakers always sound good from the moment you take them out of the box to the moment you replace them. Bad speakers always sound bad from the moment you take them out of the box to the moment you replace them. Period.
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| Post 57 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 19:38 |
SnapProductions Advanced Member |
Joined:
Posts: | August 2006
793 |
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On November 1, 2009 at 02:30, 2nd rick said...
Another old trick is to intentionally wire one speaker out of phase, and place the speakers face to face.
This way the racket is reduced significantly as they cancel each other out, and you can leave them going in a spare room for a few days to get some hours on them.
Look at Rick breaking out the OLD SCHOOL STUFF!
Well done Sir!
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"Everything will be ok in the end, if it's not ok, then it's not the end." |
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