This subject has me thinking about how lazy you get once you find products that work properly. I can remember back when i had a truck full of different types of cables and we sold many different make/model products. Things were chaotic back then. Today i carry 5 types of cable and we have a very small selection of products we use. I cant how many Denon Receiver-Fujitsu plasma combos i have installed :). Since we started selling Crestron i barely have to pull out a multimeter and because of that i have to refer to the manual to use it sometimes. Finding products that work and sticking with them can make you efficient but it can also make you short sighted and lazy.

Good thing i use AVS as a classroom :) !

It's legal as long as you don't hook it up to anything!!!!


Zip cord is NOT CL-3 fire rated. It's jacket is flammable and produces toxins.

Wait.. so its legal to run it but not hook it up? Wouldnt it catch fire and produce toxins if something else caused the fire?

I really need the answer to this incase i ever have an installation where i want to just drape lamp cord everywhere for no reason :)

Damn, Stamp. I thought you knew everything!

Yes, or that the insulation itself is inherently fire retardant, or, more importantly, did not give off toxins when heated.


Fuzzy thinking. You're saying that because it's not coated, it will heat up rapidly in a fire. Nails will heat up rapidly in a fire, but they aren't forbidden. The issue is what happens when it's heated up in a fire.


No, I don't think a piece of plastic melting inside a wall will help spread the fire to other parts of the house. Now, plastic burning inside a wall will help spread the fire, mostly upwards, but not laterally.


That's true once you get the issues sorted out.


BINGO! THAT is the issue.

But because it produces toxins, it's not legal even if you don't hook it up to anything.


That's interesting because it does not address toxic fumes at all. The things that make plenum wire different from other wire are two:
higher resistance to heat, so there's less likelihood of a short between two conductors that touch when the insulation goes soft,
and
constructed of materials that do not give off toxic fumes in a fire.

i think things are getting a little confusing here. being plenum rated has nothing to do with being cl2/3 rated. cl2/3 wire definately gives off toxins. plenum wire is rated to not give off toxic gasses because it is designed to be used in air handling spaces, thus if a fire started, all of your melting wire wont kill everybody breathing the air being distributed by the air handlers. that is why you cant run standard cl2/3 in plenum rated spaces.

Not being a chemist, I can't say for sure, but I have to wonder if it could help spread fire laterally... I mean the wire passes from stud bay to stud bay, because it is installed within the wall. What would stop that fire from travelling along the length of that wire, and thereby travel laterally...?

Yes, I can only hope that I have good, fresh, toxic-free air to breathe next time I'm HANGING OUT in a burning building.

thats funny! i agree, but if we are talking plenum spaces i do think i would rather have non toxic fumes being pumped out of the forced air systems return air supply.

As I understand it, the cable must also be clearly labled with its rating to pass code. Several companies make CL rated cables, but sheath them in a 'snakeskin' like material. It may look exotic, but if it covers any of the ratings or doesn't have ratings clearly visible on it, it can fail an inspection.

I've met inspectors that don't check low voltage at all. They figure low voltage can't kill you, so its not a safety risk. But, inspections are completely decided by the governing body having jurisdiction. Everything is open to their interpretation, but in my opinion, its always best to cover your assests.

The licensing requirement has nothing to do with code requirements for your area/state. NFPA 70("The NEC") covers anything electronic permanently and occasionally temporarily installed in dwellings, buildings, outdoors, basically anywhere. It varies from state to state as to what is enforced, but pretty much nationwide the NEC has been adopted as the standard. I would suggest that anybody performing low voltage work pick up a copy. Most low volt guys assume that because they only do low volt the NEC does not apply but if you look, there is an entire chapter dedicated to "communications circuits", ie: phone, data, catv, signaling circuits(automation), etc. All of the codes regarding CL2, CL3, and plenum type wires and applications are listed.

Having said that, sadly most inspectors don't give a rats about low voltage.

I drill half inch holes for four-conductor speaker wire. If the wire were burning, there'd be too little air flow throught that 1/2" hole for the burning to go to the next stud bay. The small diameter hole would actually prevent the wire from burning. My guess is that it might go through a one inch hole with one wire in it, and I don't have the time to drill 1" holes when I'm running one wire.

So did i! Im glad we got this lamp cord issues resolved.. Im back on top!

Zip cord on the floor for speakers OK; in a wall for anything not OK.

BTW at AVS, zip cord for anthtnig but tying up tomato plants is a nono.

But there are those of us who actually do understand the "copper is copper" concept as long as the gauge is sufficient

Geez...there is so much misinformation posted in this thread that I feel like I am reading at AVS. Read NFPA 70 and take it to heart or be prepared to lose it all one day. Your insurance does not mean anything if you screw up. This is exactly why all states need to require low voltage licenses. You guys throw around terms like plenum CL2 CL3 riser like you actually know what it means. Almost every use that was stated in this thread was incomplete or incorrect.

To answer your question...NO it is not legal in 99% of the US to run lamp cord in walls. The places where it is legal do not have building codes or at least have not adopted NPFA 70.