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Topic:
Is it legal to run Zip Cord In wall ?
This thread has 93 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 12:25
39 Cent Stamp
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10+ Years ago we used sonance 14/4 speaker cable to the first speaker then a piece of brown 16/2 lamp cord or 'zip cord' over to the second speaker for in-wall, in-ceiling speaker runs.

At AVS someone said this goes against code. Does it go against code? If so does anyone know why?

I'm not planning on using it just curious. First thing i though of was maybe its because it could be confused as high voltage but i really have no idea.

Thanks.

Post 2 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 12:33
Eastside A/V
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To my knowledge, the issue is it is not coated in a fire retardent (CL2/CL3 rated) material, and as such if there were a fire, it would heat up almost instantly, and become essentially a fuse with a high heat melting plastic sheath...accellerating the progress of a fire to other parts of a house.

This is the same reason extension cables, and power cables being put in wall are not to code.
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Post 3 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 12:35
edizzle
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i think the only problem would be that it is not cl2 in wall rated. but neither is the clear monster standard cable that builders and diyers still to this day use and think that it is better than the stuff we use
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Post 4 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 12:40
edizzle
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it also depends on how far back your talking about. i am not quite sure when low voltage wiring started to require a cl2/3 rating. also why are you even talking to those dbags at AVS:)
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Post 5 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 12:46
tweetymp4
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must be CL or CM rated to conform to NEC
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Post 6 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 12:48
Bonavox
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On September 15, 2009 at 12:25, 39 Cent Stamp said...

At AVS someone said this goes against code. Does it go against code? If so does anyone know why?

Why is the mighty Stamp allowing the knuckle heads at AVS to cloud his judgment?


I'm not planning on using it just curious. First thing i though of was maybe its because it could be confused as high voltage but i really have no idea.

Thanks.

Remember the NEC is not a U.S. law, rather it collects the requirements for safe electrical installations and puts it into on comprehensive guide.

It's up to the local jurisdiction to enforce what part of the NEC they see fit.


In my state the only licensing need is for security and I'm "assuming" that if lamp cord is only being used as "low voltage" wiring then their would be no violation of any NEC code.

If you using it to pass 120v then you probably have some issues. Most notably the lack of any ground wire and the fact you probably don't have a license to run high voltage wire.

And as other have pointed out CL rating, but is that enforced in all states on low voltage wire.
Bill's Electric & Home Theater & Plumbing & Automation & Small Engine Repair, and Animal Removal Services......did I mention we do remotes also?
Post 7 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:22
Gizmologist09
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Even though some municipalities may add there own regulations, the NEC is accepted nationwide. The other issue is insurance. If for any reason an insurance company discovers (after a fire or during an inspection) that non-plenum rated wiring was used, YOU are liable as the licensed installer. This can and HAS come back to haunt several companies.

As CL2 wire is so cheap, why would anyone run zip cord through a wall on an CI installation basis?
Post 8 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:36
smokinghot
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Yes it's against code. The insulation is not rated for inwall use. The voltage used in the application does not change the cable's designated usage.

All codes are subject to the disgression of the inspector on site. I've never seen an inspector, (I've dealt with countless), pass an installation that used improper material for the application.
....Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
OP | Post 9 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:40
39 Cent Stamp
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On September 15, 2009 at 13:22, Gizmologist09 said...
As CL2 wire is so cheap, why would anyone run zip cord through a wall on an CI installation basis?

I like to live dangerously :).

We have been pulling Liberty cable for so long that i have no idea what the rules are anymore. At AVS I suggested that a DIY guy get some 16/2 from the hardware store to test his gear out while he waited for speaker cable to be in stock at monoprice. Someone spotted that advice and brought the "zip cord aint legal" thing up and i was curious about it.

So far we know that it should be CL or CM rated to conform to NEC.

So does that mean its illegal to run this in wall or just that its not recommended? Are there specific circumstances that make it legal or not? Like high-rise vs single family home?
OP | Post 10 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:42
39 Cent Stamp
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On September 15, 2009 at 13:36, smokinghot said...
All codes are subject to the disgression of the inspector on site. I've never seen an inspector, (I've dealt with countless), pass an installation that used improper material for the application.

I have seen inspectors pass electricians that had shorts in the house and bare, live wire hanging out of the walls. :)

When i asked the carpenter "how did he pass the inspection" i was told "the inspector around here knows all the electricians so he just passed them, they spent about 15 minutes talking by the front door and then he left".
Post 11 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:46
smokinghot
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On September 15, 2009 at 13:40, 39 Cent Stamp said...
We have been pulling Liberty cable for so long that i have no idea what the rules are anymore. At AVS I suggested that a DIY guy get some 16/2 from the hardware store to test his gear out while he waited for speaker cable to be in stock at monoprice. Someone spotted that advice and brought the "zip cord aint legal" thing up and i was curious about it.

So he was planning on running the zip cord temporarily and then replacing it with proper cable afterware...? Is the zip cord going within the wall or not...?...I'm confused.

So does that mean its illegal to run this in wall or just that its not recommended? Are there specific circumstances that make it legal or not? Like high-rise vs single family home?

It about insulation ratings Stamp. The only time it's allowed to be used in a wall, is when it's not... Not sure how else to explain it.
....Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Post 12 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:51
smokinghot
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On September 15, 2009 at 13:42, 39 Cent Stamp said...
I have seen inspectors pass electricians that had shorts in the house and bare, live wire hanging out of the walls. :)

When i asked the carpenter "how did he pass the inspection" i was told "the inspector around here knows all the electricians so he just passed them, they spent about 15 minutes talking by the front door and then he left".

That has to do with installation practices, not materials used. It's a different arguement. Obviously, a junction box with unterminated wire, will have that wire terminated when it's all said and done.

In my area, a company can build a score with the electrical safety authority. Depending on that score, which is based on successful inspections, a company will only have random installations critically inspected. It's about work load for the electrical authority. I don't agree with it, but it's being done.
....Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Post 13 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:54
Rob Grabon
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NEC: "...and shall be listed as being resistant to the spread of fire."
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OP | Post 14 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 13:59
39 Cent Stamp
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On September 15, 2009 at 13:46, smokinghot said...
So he was planning on running the zip cord temporarily and then replacing it with proper cable afterware...? Is the zip cord going within the wall or not...?...I'm confused.

The guy at AVS was just hooking up his gear that he just purchased to make sure everything worked like he thought it would so it was all sort of placed out in the room, not installed, cables not run etc. So yes.. its going to be replaced with proper cable. I was just curious about it being legal.

It about insulation ratings Stamp. The only time it's allowed to be used in a wall, is when it's not... Not sure how else to explain it.

Not clear here.. Reads like it cant be used in a wall.
Post 15 made on Tuesday September 15, 2009 at 14:03
smokinghot
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On September 15, 2009 at 13:59, 39 Cent Stamp said...
Not clear here.. Reads like it cant be used in a wall.

If we're still talking about the use of zip cord. You understand it prefectly.
....Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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