Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 2 of 3
Topic:
Whole house battery backup?
This thread has 31 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 00:40
Gizmologist09
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2009
762
It would be interesting to see a load vs run time graph. It just seems like a half a ton or more of batteries with a limited life and limited run time is just not as practical as a generator. Once the batteries run down you are right back at square one.
Post 17 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 00:42
cma
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2003
3,044
On July 7, 2009 at 19:57, edizzle said...
you have never seen a whole house on the generator? that is almost the norm here. i would say at least 50% of our jobs, run whole house generators. 50, 60, 80kW generators and larger. the other 50% pick key circuits to power.

The largest job I have have done here when I was a project manager for another company was a 25k sq ft home with a 2.5 million dollar A/V integration contract and no, the whole house was not on the generator. I don't think I have ever seen an entire house on a generator out of the 12 or so houses I have done with generators. There simply isn't a reason to have every single outlet or device in a house on a generator.
Post 18 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 00:57
Gizmologist09
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2009
762
Saw whole house systems frequently in the DFW area of the high dollar homes. 50kw+ was not uncommon at all. We did one house that had a 600 amp service and a transformer in the yard. We pulled multiple 750 MCM cables 500 ft from the utility to their yard. They wanted a whole house backup but the city the area would have to be zoned differently to accommodate the genset and fuel supply. They settled on a 100kw and ran dedicated lines. The entire AC system was on it.
Post 19 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 01:43
davidcasemore
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2003
3,352
These folks do whole-house batteries.

http://www.gaiapowertechnologies.com/

Don't forget Fuel Cells...

[Link: acumentrics.com]

...and Flywheel technology, too.

[Link: 42u.com]

Generators aren't the only game in town.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 20 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 02:07
edizzle
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2005
5,916
that richard gray piece is sick, and very expensive i might add. i just priced a 15kw generac, installed and i believe it was $6,000 maybe $8,000. i cant remember and we moved from that house so we did not pull the trigger on it. in reference to $30,000 for 11kw, wow.

as far as why you would want entire house on generator, why not, if you got $$ why wouldnt you want absolutely no interuption in your life due to things you cant control?
I love supporting product that supports me!
Post 21 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 11:31
1911Guy
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2008
47
I wonder if the people who only put part of their house on generator added up the cost (parts and labor) to install what amounts to a parallel electrical distribution system, one for generator protected and one for normal. In a very large house with many sub-panels it adds up pretty quick, labor especially.
"...and that's the way it is" Larry Potterfield
Post 22 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 15:20
Mr. Stanley
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2006
16,954
Was working in a cavernous underground parking garage of a in the software industry mogul's 55 to 60,000 sq ft. estate...
The parking garage is like a mini underground sports arena - 35 car capacity... High domed ceiling & it was dark in the garage and I was toning out some stuff, when all of the sudden two giant (D-8 caterpillar enginges kicked on), and scared the crap out of me. They were suspended about 30 feet off the ground in these black cages, so I didn't notice them when I was in there!
They were to power up back-up generators for the estate in the event of a long term (20 some day) powere black-out.
The engineering guy was testing the system that day. Man it was noisey!
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 23 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 19:52
BisyB
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2006
964
Yeah they can catch you off guard if you are not ready. It's too bad that often I get called in quite a bit after projects are done when things like this are desired but are not done during the project. I have to be the guy to tell them it would have cost thousands less if given thought during the build (only when they ask though).

Transfer switching isn't the issue, check the price difference between setting up automatic transfer switching and manual transfer switching... It's a good way to add some dollars on the project. I have replaced so many of these style switches that I have lost count

[Link: homedepot.com]

But some people want to hunt for the flashlight to flip the switches.
Web Design | Hosting - www.bz303.com
Post 24 made on Wednesday July 8, 2009 at 20:13
Gizmologist09
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2009
762
Is that toy UL listed? There is no way I would even consider using a device like that.

First off, the size of the enclosure does not conform to current NEMA standards regarding free space in the enclosure for wire radius limitations, the meters look like something from Radio Shack, and you cannot have live terminal components in the wire chase. That's just what I see on the outside.

I design my own for use in bus conversions and my own home. Mine are automatic and are mechanically and electrically interlocked between the grid, (shore power) the genset and the inverter. They also automatically ground faults
and will not connect to shore power if there is no ground.
Post 25 made on Thursday July 9, 2009 at 08:02
william david design
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2005
2,943
On July 8, 2009 at 00:08, SV650S said...
[Link: richardgrayspowercompany.com]

We did a project with one of these. It would power the whole house for hours if the generator failed to start. The power for the audio, video, server rack ,lighting, sewing room, blah,blah,blah all went through it. The wall outlets were about the only things that were not on it.

Are those prices listed in the brochure installed?
Defectus tuus consilium carpere discrimen mihi non constituit.
Post 26 made on Thursday July 9, 2009 at 08:39
Bucdup
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2005
342
On July 8, 2009 at 00:57, Gizmologist09 said...
Saw whole house systems frequently in the DFW area of the high dollar homes. 50kw+ was not uncommon at all. We did one house that had a 600 amp service and a transformer in the yard. We pulled multiple 750 MCM cables 500 ft from the utility to their yard. They wanted a whole house backup but the city the area would have to be zoned differently to accommodate the genset and fuel supply. They settled on a 100kw and ran dedicated lines. The entire AC system was on it.

Sounds like someone cannot do a proper NEC 220 load calculation.... You do not need to match amp for amp on whole house power. A 100 kW generator has 417 amps of continuous output at 240V single phase... I doubt if the damand load on a 600 amp service exceeded that by much, maybe 480 amps? If so, I do not see where a 125 - 150kW generator would have been much of an issue with zoning as those sizes are usually housed in a similar enclosure...

Could have been 3 phase power on a home that size I guess... but still could not have been far from covering the demand.
Ecclesiastes 2:10-11 [Link: biblegateway.com]
Post 27 made on Thursday July 9, 2009 at 10:26
ejfiii
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2003
2,021
We are installing a 16kVA whole house UPS/Surge system from Tripplite [Link: tripplite.com] now that is less than half the cost of the RG with better output, more run time, three year next day on site service and start up service/connections included. Simply add batteries for longer runtimes. Every AV outlet and piece of gear is on it. It will run the AV system while the genny that runs the whole house starts up. It is always online so it is always providing clean power to the AV equipment - whether its on utility or genny power.

For those of you allowing your AV gear to run on genny power - shame on you. That is the dirtiest, nastiest, worse shaped power you can get. Look at the output on an o-scope and you will know what I mean.

MAP now has exact power for whole house AV power solutions. I am working with their engineers to incorporate battery back up into the system.

The real question is why would you NOT want a whole house UPS system - at least whole house AV UPS system?
Post 28 made on Thursday July 9, 2009 at 11:20
Gizmologist09
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2009
762
You never heard of overkill an keeping up with the Joneses? In this area, people use inordinate amounts of power. The decorator used 150 watt downlights like artwork, The main hall in the house was just under 100ft long. Down both sides of the hall 150 watt downlights were installed every 5 ft on both sides, about 18 inches out from the wall.

Lutron even sent a tech specialist out to assist in the programming of the rather large and complex dimmer systems.

There was an indoor 15x15ft spa with electric heat , a large home theater, 3 industrial kitchens, about 50tons of AC, 2 large walk-in freezers and 2 large refrigerators, a 1/2 inside 1/2 oustide swimming pool with heat and a wavemaker(you swim under an exterior wall), a lighted tennis court, 7 bedrooms each with a jacuzzi, a large auto and maintenance vehicle service shop, grounds keeper's quarters and 3 maids apts.. All this plus the assorted living and entertaining rooms. There was also extensive landscape lighting with about a 100 moonlights for the trees.

While we were still building the house and before the owners moved in, the first electric bill was received- 3,000.00 and change.
Post 29 made on Thursday July 9, 2009 at 12:13
Bucdup
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2005
342
On July 9, 2009 at 11:20, Gizmologist09 said...
You never heard of overkill an keeping up with the Joneses? In this area, people use inordinate amounts of power. The decorator used 150 watt downlights like artwork, The main hall in the house was just under 100ft long. Down both sides of the hall 150 watt downlights were installed every 5 ft on both sides, about 18 inches out from the wall.

Lutron even sent a tech specialist out to assist in the programming of the rather large and complex dimmer systems.

There was an indoor 15x15ft spa with electric heat , a large home theater, 3 industrial kitchens, about 50tons of AC, 2 large walk-in freezers and 2 large refrigerators, a 1/2 inside 1/2 oustide swimming pool with heat and a wavemaker(you swim under an exterior wall), a lighted tennis court, 7 bedrooms each with a jacuzzi, a large auto and maintenance vehicle service shop, grounds keeper's quarters and 3 maids apts.. All this plus the assorted living and entertaining rooms. There was also extensive landscape lighting with about a 100 moonlights for the trees.

While we were still building the house and before the owners moved in, the first electric bill was received- 3,000.00 and change.

Oh I know the type... my favorite customers!!

My point was the service size is based on a demand load calculation (or at least should be)

Even if the home is operating at 99% capacity, a 150kW generator would provide 625 amps of continuous output, obviously more than the electric service capability, and is generally is about the same physical size as the 100kW. Not a huge zoning problem I would imagine.
Ecclesiastes 2:10-11 [Link: biblegateway.com]
Post 30 made on Thursday July 9, 2009 at 13:38
Gizmologist09
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2009
762
Well you can try arguing with the city inspectors, zoning dept, and building code/permitting but it usually doesn't matter. They have set points that even though they may be small differences there is a cut off. In residential areas, 100KW was the max.

I like customers like this too but I do feel kind of guilty seeing all this wasted extravagance. But if you have money you can certainly spend some with me.
Page 2 of 3


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse