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The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:
| Topic: | Prewire & Label Techniques This thread has 36 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30. |
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| Post 16 made on Friday June 19, 2009 at 12:28 |
39 Cent Stamp Elite Member |
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On June 19, 2009 at 11:21, davidcasemore said...
39 cent stamp, here's a tip for you and anybody else that uses a numbering system for their cables. You will find this system in use on commercial plans and it's the system used by the AIA.
Each room gets a number, followed by a decimal point. The very first digit represents a floor level (000 being the basement, 100 being the first floor). Each number after the decimal point represents an item in that room.
For example, a first-floor dining room would be 108. The lighting keypad at one entry to the dining room would be 108.1 and the lighting keypad at the other side of the room would be 108.2. This way, if the client adds another keypad in the dining room, you haven't run out of numbers for the dining room.
You could add a letter symbol to this system to tell the difference between what a particular cat5e does, for example. Perhaps LKP.108.1, LKP.108.2, TP.108.1, SPK.108.1, SPK.108.2, TSTAT.108.1
Keep the leading three digit number the same for every job you do and it won't belong before you recognize a first-floor dining room when you see the number 108. (Since the AIA standard is for large commercial buildings, the numbering system they use starts with the room in the southwest corner and moves clock-wise. If the building has just one central corridor, the numbers ascend with the even numbers on one side of the corridor and the odd numbers on the other side). GREAT TIP!
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| Post 17 made on Friday June 19, 2009 at 13:17 |
Ernie Bornn-Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
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On June 18, 2009 at 16:36, 39 Cent Stamp said...
Get panduit printer labels & set up a spread sheet. I guess I should have also asked “what software do you use to set this up?” I saw “set up a spreadsheet” and my brain defaulted to Excel. On June 19, 2009 at 10:36, 39 Cent Stamp said...
You basically just make the cells match the labels you’re using. Proving once again that whenever someone says “simply” or “just,” they’re about to leave out as many as seventeen crucial bits of information. Now I can add “basically” to the list. I wish i could offer more information about it but i had one of the ladies in the office make it for me years ago. As we began to use D-Tools more i stopped having to make manual wire lists. Cool, but what software did she use? You give us the label information for the labels you use with D-Tools. How about the labels you use, or used, with the other method? How about a copy of one of the worksheets so we can simply steal the method? Yes, I said "simply.") David, that’s a really cool numbering idea. Thanks for that!
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| Post 18 made on Friday June 19, 2009 at 17:18 |
39 Cent Stamp Elite Member |
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The manual way of doing it is with Excel (my brain also defaults to excel when spreadsheet is mentioned). The screenshots are from excel but you cant tell because i cropped the image. Here is the excel spread sheet for the wire numbers : [Link: wiremunky.com]I didnt post it earlier because i cant remember the model of the panduit labels. You can use a spreadsheet with any laser/inkjet labels.
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| Post 19 made on Saturday June 20, 2009 at 11:03 |
drewski300 Super Member |
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Like the tip David!
For a couple of jobs we started using bundled cables because we thought it would be simpler. Big mistake! When you need to use a cat 5 for IR, balun, or whatever it gets ugly stripping the jacket back and having the wire go to a different location. It looks like crap.
I use a marker for all the prewire. IMO it's not worth printing labels when you have to move the wires a few times before your finished.
Color code all the wires. We use white for phone, blue for data, gray for balun/IR. It makes labeling and identifing much faster, if you don't already do this.
Create templates! Excel or something else, it will make keeping track wires, security zones, and the overall job much more efficient. Also, it will get your guys into the right mind set as you want them to be detailed! If you let them do whatever, they will do whatever.
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| Post 20 made on Wednesday June 24, 2009 at 20:42 |
sofa_king_CI Super Member |
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Okay, so I'm working on my wire labeling ideas, but I'm sorta stuck trying to decide the best way.
I like the idea of have a the first three digits determine floor and room. For example, 203 would be the 2nd level and the third room, clockwise from the SW corner. So then I have mutliple locations in each room, so do do 203.1 = first location, again in clockwise order, or do I go 203.TV - for tv location.
Then at the TV, I may have 2 RG6 and 4 Cat6 (balun & control), and a 18-2 (JIC) so would that be, 203.TV.1, 203.TV.2.....to 203.TV.7 - Or do you go 203.TV.CAT.1, 203.TV.CAT.2, 203.TV.RG6.1
That's starting to get DAMN long. So maybe I just go 001, 002, 003 and have a chart, then EVERY cable has its own number and you do get confused with 203.TV.CAT.1 vs 204.TV.CAT.1
Ugghh, please help me with some more ideas. I still have a data/phone connection and a local audio input (minimum) in each room.
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| Post 21 made on Wednesday June 24, 2009 at 20:52 |
sofa_king_CI Super Member |
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On June 19, 2009 at 11:21, davidcasemore said...
For example, a first-floor dining room would be 108. The lighting keypad at one entry to the dining room would be 108.1 and the lighting keypad at the other side of the room would be 108.2. This way, if the client adds another keypad in the dining room, you haven't run out of numbers for the dining room.
You could add a letter symbol to this system to tell the difference between what a particular cat5e does, for example. Perhaps LKP.108.1, LKP.108.2, TP.108.1, SPK.108.1, SPK.108.2, TSTAT.108.1 This makes, sense, but what do you do when you have multiple wires at the same locations. I could go Location 2 in the 3 room on the first floor = 203.2 So then if its RG6 for Cable = CBL.203.2, but if I have two RG6 for Sat to that same location I have SAT.203.2.1 & SAT.203.2.2 Maybe just having the number for Room designation, location designation, then number the wires at that spot is the best. 203.2.1 = cable, 203.2.2 = sat 1, 203.2.3= sat2, 203.2.4 = Cat6 balun 1, 203.2.5 = cat6 balun 2. hmmm Also, Do you having a separate Plan for you structured wiring, since they are usually going to a different location? I can see this being a problem, because you could have two Cat6 cables with the same label, but one goes to the rack and one goes to the SP.
Last edited by sofa_king_CI on June 24, 2009 21:34.
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do wino hue? |
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| Post 22 made on Wednesday June 24, 2009 at 22:46 |
bennettavi Active Member |
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Ok - on the same note (kinda) - when you start combing your wires at the trim phase - do you arrange them:
1. By color for aesthetics
2. By "bundles" to their respective shelf in the rack.
3. By zones
4. By category ( Ir / serial / audio / video / security, etc)
??
Just curious
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| Post 23 made on Wednesday June 24, 2009 at 22:50 |
39 Cent Stamp Elite Member |
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I arrange them by type which usually ends up by color, killing 2 birds with one stone.
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| Post 24 made on Sunday June 28, 2009 at 08:17 |
mariomp Loyal Member |
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My clients usually have me do pre-wire as one phase and trim-out/install of components as separate part (which I don't always get).
So, if you do the pre wire but don't get the trim-out, or the trim-out is plates only and nothing in the SMC, would you provide the legend, or consider that extra effort on your part and as such, a proprietary information and not share it?
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| Post 25 made on Sunday June 28, 2009 at 12:31 |
sofa_king_CI Super Member |
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Well, it seems to me that your prewire price should include properly doing the prewire which includes a label scheme for all the wires, which should be provided.
But on the other hand, you often have to low-ball the crap out of prewire only phases to get the work, so maybe the Legend is something you do for your personal records?
Good question?
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do wino hue? |
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| Post 26 made on Sunday June 28, 2009 at 16:43 |
39 Cent Stamp Elite Member |
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You should start selling system design. A set of prints that shows every wire that needs to be run with a unique number for each wire and a spreadsheet that explains where the wire comes from and goes to. Not just "3 cat5's to the kitchen". It should be #001 - Head End To Kitchen Cat5, #002 - Head End To Kitchen RG6 etc.
You dont neccesarily need to include what they go to and this will help curb them from trying to cut you out of the next few phases.
This way you get paid for the 'plan'. If they cut you out of prewire & trim out its ok because you got paid for designing the system. If they keep you for prewire..
Charge for the prewire separately. There is no need to charge for the documentation because you were already paid for it as part of system design. If they decide to cut you out of trim out who cares because you were paid for everything you have provided up to this point.
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| Post 27 made on Monday June 29, 2009 at 05:22 |
mariomp Loyal Member |
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I love your guys' ideas and have learned some solid lessons from all the posts that I've read.
However, in my market I would either have to drop almost every client I have ever done work for, or move to another market. I would love to charge for design work ( I know every one here always says that they do), but I loose jobs because I'm charging 50bucks per wire and someone else is willing to do it for $40 or less. People don't care that my competition is not skilled, licensed or even experienced. All they see is my bit for $2k and someone else's is less. I know you always say that its better to loose cheap clients than to endure all the headaches that come from penny pinching cheapskates. Unfortunetelly, almost every client I meet (95%+) falls into that category. No one I deal with has lighting designers, or decorators; most people use draftsman not architects. I know there are builders/homeowners that do hire them, I just wish I knew how to reach them.
Anyways, sorry for venting. It's just little discouraging when I see others talking about $100k to $1Million L.V. jobs, and I'm trying to land the $10K ones and rarely can.
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| Post 28 made on Monday June 29, 2009 at 05:28 |
mariomp Loyal Member |
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On June 28, 2009 at 16:43, 39 Cent Stamp said...
You should start selling system design. A set of prints that shows every wire ...|
39- 1. What software or service do you use to capture plans (most of my clients will give me 1 sheet with floor layout, no file/software available)? 2. What do you use to generate finished plans with layout, legend for finished project? I presume that the software would also provide full legend with descriptions, from/to designations so Excel would not be needed. 3. What reasonably prices options have you used (can't see spending a grand or more on software, there is simply not an ROI in my market; that I found).
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| Post 29 made on Thursday October 8, 2009 at 23:41 |
hdx Long Time Member |
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Bump... in hopes that someone will answer Mario's questions.
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| Post 30 made on Friday October 9, 2009 at 01:02 |
39 Cent Stamp Elite Member |
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On June 29, 2009 at 05:28, mariomp said...
39-
1. What software or service do you use to capture plans (most of my clients will give me 1 sheet with floor layout, no file/software available)?
2. What do you use to generate finished plans with layout, legend for finished project? I presume that the software would also provide full legend with descriptions, from/to designations so Excel would not be needed.
3. What reasonably prices options have you used (can't see spending a grand or more on software, there is simply not an ROI in my market; that I found). Oops.. missed this one. 1. These days we usually get floorplans we can open with visio from the client or the architect. If we do get paper prints or a flat file like a scan or a pdf we will just drag it into visio and trace it putting walls doors or windows where they go. In the past i have actually gone out and spent the day with a tape measure and drawn the prints out myself when they were not available. And in the event that prints are just NOT going to happen just draw rectangles to represent each room in visio. 2. D-Tools. You have to invest some $ and time into it but once its setup you can drag your shapes in and the rest is automated. Its more difficult than i make it sound but its like anything else in this business. Sweat equity will pay off in the end. 3. If i wanted to produce professional looking prints without spending much money i would probably get visio and use google images to find icons for speakers and TV's and use the simple shape tools to represent data boxes keypad locations etc. Sofa King was using a product that was free (i think) that worked well for generating prints and rack renderings. I cant remember the name of it and my brain is pretty fried from looking at web code all week. Hopefully he chimes in with the details.
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