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RF Learning remote?
This thread has 16 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Saturday May 9, 2009 at 23:42
Vincent Delpino
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Now before you flame know this, the technology exists. I have it in my Ford F250. There are 3 visor buttons meant to control garage doors. They were able to learn RF codes from Lutron, Ademco, and a few others. My question is why has there been no remote company to utilize this?
Post 2 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 01:56
WhiteVan Lifestyle
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I wont flame. Thats a damn good question and I've wondered that myself.
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Post 3 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 02:02
pilgram
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My understanding is that it has to do with the FCC and licensing....I could be wrong.
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Post 4 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 08:48
juliejacobson
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Vincent, I assume all of these products are Homelink compatible. RF devices that aren't Homelink won't work. Issue has less to do with FCC, from what I am told, and more to do with presumed intellectual property.

A while ago Chamberlain (a huge garage-door opener company and owner of AMX, Chief, Sanus) sued Skylink under the Digital Millennium copyright Act (DMCA) for their RF learning product. It was totally ludicrous and they lost.

There have been similar suits in the RF world.

Perhaps Chamberlain and others are playing the safety card. It is illegal to automate a garage door to close, without the user being in line of sight (I know, you all automate these things but it currently is illegal)

Inside of the home, IR is the pervasive protocol, which is why so many co's make IR learning products. RF is still rare, except for garage door openers, so mfrs may not see an opportunity in commercial RF learning products.

more on Chamberlain vs. Skylink "abuse of DMCA"
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Post 5 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 12:54
Dave in Balto
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But control of fireplaces and ceiling fans would be nice to have.
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Post 6 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 13:58
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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On May 10, 2009 at 08:48, juliejacobson said...
A while ago Chamberlain (a huge garage-door opener company and owner of AMX, Chief, Sanus) sued Skylink under the Digital Millennium copyright Act (DMCA) for their RF learning product. It was totally ludicrous and they lost.

There have been similar suits in the RF world.

I assume you mean IR world, since you were just talking about RF. What other companies have been involved in similar suits?


I doubt that it's an FCC issue. Rather, there doesn't have to be just one method of encoding a control signal; a range of frequencies, not just one, is available for RF controls; transmitting and receiving antennas must be made of a physical size and layout to match the RF frequency used.

A product that could learn RF control codes would have to know what size to make its antenna for the commands you want to learn at any given moment; what frequency to look for and reproduce; and various methods of modulation and signal encoding.

The closest it comes to being an FCC issue is that products made for markets outside the US use different RF frequencies. With IR, we can learn commands for products made for markets worldwide, but with RF, not.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
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Post 7 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 14:36
gwstudios
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I know this will sound funny but you could always crack open the RF remote for a fan (for example) and use a processors on board relay to manually connect the two normally open connections on the board to simulate pressing the button.

The same goes for your garage door manual button(s). There simply two wires that need to be connected for the doors to open / close via on board AMX / Crestron relays. Run one of the wires through a normally closed manual switch attached to a bracket so when the garage door is open the loop cannot be completed. This will assure the door can never be closed remotely, only opened.

The bracket / switch has to be at the bottom of the door so even if the door is open an inch, it cannot be closed as the loop is now severed.

We have used the I/O ports on the back of the AMX processors for this very purpose and also for feedback to the panel to let you know the garage door is currently open or closed. The feedback can also be used to show / hide buttons in AMX so unless the door is closed, the button doesn't exist on the panel.
Post 8 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 14:09
jimstolz76
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I know the RadioRa car visor is Homelink compatible. What Ademco/Honeywell piece did you learn into your F250?
Post 9 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 14:11
jimstolz76
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On May 10, 2009 at 14:36, gwstudios said...
I know this will sound funny but you could always crack open the RF remote for a fan (for example) and use a processors on board relay to manually connect the two normally open connections on the board to simulate pressing the button.

The same goes for your garage door manual button(s). There simply two wires that need to be connected for the doors to open / close via on board AMX / Crestron relays. Run one of the wires through a normally closed manual switch attached to a bracket so when the garage door is open the loop cannot be completed. This will assure the door can never be closed remotely, only opened.

The bracket / switch has to be at the bottom of the door so even if the door is open an inch, it cannot be closed as the loop is now severed.

We have used the I/O ports on the back of the AMX processors for this very purpose and also for feedback to the panel to let you know the garage door is currently open or closed. The feedback can also be used to show / hide buttons in AMX so unless the door is closed, the button doesn't exist on the panel.

How did you attach wires to the switch contacts of the OEM remote?
Post 10 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 14:30
juliejacobson
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Can you guys give me a list of what types of RF things you would want to include?
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Post 11 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 14:46
39 Cent Stamp
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Garage door openers
Gate openers
Ceiling fans
Lighting

DISH/DIRECTV/CABLE boxes. Some of these have RF capabilities but they do us no good because we cant use our handy dandy control systems with them.
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Post 12 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 14:52
jimstolz76
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On May 11, 2009 at 14:46, 39 Cent Stamp said...
DISH/DIRECTV/CABLE boxes. Some of these have RF capabilities but they do us no good because we cant use our handy dandy control systems with them.

and you have to turn off the IR sensor when you use RF on DirecTV boxes, which is a headache. If you could do RF only, then you could keep the RF OEM remote in use, which would help in some situations.

I wonder why it's possible to make an IR to Bluetooth converter, but no one has made an IR to RF converter - even if it's only for one specific device like a certain model RF ceiling fan or fireplace. (yes I understand that Bluetooth is a standard and RF means anything that is radio frequency)
Post 13 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 17:00
juliejacobson
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I am quite confident that the RF4CE standard will in fact materialize, but I don't know if it will go beyond CE devices. Perhaps someone will build a Homelink/rf4ce bridge?

[Link: zigbee.org]
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Post 14 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 20:13
gwstudios
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On May 11, 2009 at 14:11, jimstolz76 said...
How did you attach wires to the switch contacts of the OEM remote?

From my car audio days, I have become quite the precision solderer. Most of the time on a manual remote, the two contacts can be easily attached to with some pre-tinned CAT-5e or similar. My latest one was connecting the ground terminal of the player 1 LED of my XBOX360 remote to the third terminal on the right trigger control.

Once you put in a custom inset temporary switch on the back of your remote, you now have rapid fire for games like Halo, Gears, Call of Duty etc.....

My friend Jason has ruined three controllers and finally let me do it on the fourth.

Last edited by gwstudios on May 11, 2009 21:59.
Post 15 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 22:46
anyhomeneeds
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On May 10, 2009 at 14:36, gwstudios said...
I know this will sound funny but you could always crack open the RF remote for a fan (for example) and use a processors on board relay to manually connect the two normally open connections on the board to simulate pressing the button.

I did the same thing with a remote gate opener. I needed to tie it into a RadioRa system and a RTI RP6. Works great.
"You can't fix stupid."
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