I need a system that can do 6-10 source, 15-18 zones, and 20-25 rooms (read that 5-7 sub-zones)

I looked around alot, and I can't decide the best way to go.

Niles seems to max out at 4 source. Sonnance and Russound at 6 source, and Xantech at 8.

that aside the problem I'm hitting is that I can't seem to find anything that will do the sub-zones the way I want.

Imagine the Master-suite: 1 zone, Speakers in the Bedroom, Bathroom and on the Patio. Keypad in the Bedroom, Rio-stat for the Bath and the Patio. Should work great for source selection and control, but If She's soaking in the tub, and want's a CD, How do I turn it off in the Bedroom while she turns it up in the Bath?

Here's the Rub! The Key-pad controls the volume for the zone, the Rio-stats are just attenuators. I want it off in the Bedroom, on in the Bathroom. I don't want to add a Rio-stat in the bedroom, because that will lead to too many service calls later on. (Hello, My keypad says that the Volume is all the way up, but I can't here anything!!)

The best thing that I can come up with so-far, (and I'm not even sure if it will work) would be to run a fixed-out from the pre-amp (to multiple amps), and then have a remote controlable Amp (controlled by the Keypad).

I would like to find a system that has both variable (key-pad controlable) pre-outs to the amp, but at the same time gives a fixed out (for regular manual Vol. Cont. Knobs.)

The only one's I can find use the fixed out's either for daisy-chain to the next controler, or you switch to a fixed out only.

Didn't really want to go to 100% independant zones for every room.

Sorry for the rant!

Any help is appreciated.

It might be out of your budget but Crestron make a couple of units for the installation you describe. Look at the PAD-8 and the BIPAD-8. 8X8 and 16X8 Audio matrix routers with volume, bass, and treble controls. These will do what you describe and more!

Brian

Check out http://www.elanhomesystems.com/

You can ask questions about Elan at:
[Link: 66.159.163.6]

John

Take a look at the B&K CT-610. It's a 6 zone receiver, 9 source input plus a local input, cascade outputs to daisy chain the same sources to the second and third receivers, fixed line outs with variable amp outs, on and on and on. It will do the trick, I think, based on your spec.

Russounds gear is all stackable.

Use a CA6 and CA4 - DONE!

Oh wait, your said SOURCES. NM

If you are going to do multiple sets off of one zone, we've found that the best approach is to do a rheostat VC for all sets attached to that zone. Most homes can be happy with 8 sources and 8 total zones. A big open space (say... living, dining, entry) will almost never want to play two different types of music. All of the outdoor speakers are usually synchronized. The key is that each set gets a VC and its own two channels of an amp.

Xantech's MRC88 and others like it have preouts which you then split. If your zone has three sets it goes to six channels of amplification, etc.

If you want to go crazy... check out ADA's Suite 16 (16 source, 16 zone) unit. Big $$$$ but it sounds like your client wants the best.

What about the new Nile's (BOB) ZR 8630 . 8 source 6 zone. You can stack a total of 3 ZR 4630 for a of 18 zone's. You have selectable pre output level's (Variable or fixed) 2 Built in tuners .
Zinon

Also about the Niles, that Zinon didnt mention, you can take the speaker level outs of one zone to the keypad so its ramp rated, and the line level outs to a distribution amp to feed the pot's at a fixed volume. That would give you 6 zones with 6 keypads (more actualy as they can be daisy chained)and any munber of Rio-stats per zone.
Hope this helps.

The Niles ZR Receiver's are great. I just completed an 18 zone system with 3 sub zones for a total of 21 room's (Can you believe 21 room's in a Manhattan apartment). I stacked 3 ZR4630'S. The Penthouse had 3 master suite's each with a master bath. I feed the master bedroom speaker's from the Nile's 30 watt per channel speaker output then the master bath's through a small 6 channel amp using the fixed output of the 4630 and a volume control. This way the master bedroom volume does not affect the master bathroom volume. My client loves it. Very easy to use and works all the time.

I would have to reccomend Elan. Set up each zone with a keypad, touchscreen or combo, then use the VSEs

"The introduction of ELAN’s Electronic Volume Control (VSE) has created many new and creative applications including the ability to enable Variable zone functionality from a Fixed zone. One keypad in a sub zone can now control all functions of the zone including Volume Up and Volume Down while other parts of the sub zone maintain their ability to separately control volume using another keypad or volume control.

This scenario will require a zone controller -- ZPAD, VIA! or IR receiver -- and at least two VSE’s. The zone will be set to Fixed, the ZPAD or VIA! will be configured and wired for the zone in question, and the line level Zone outputs will connect to the appropriate inputs of a power amp.

The methodology is relatively straightforward. The Local IR output from a ZPAD or VIA! is routed to the IR input of a VSE while the System IR output is connected to a Z630 IR input. When the Volume Up or Volume Down buttons are pressed, these commands are sent down the System port to the Z630 (where they are ignored because the zone is set to Fixed) and down the Local port to the VSE (where they raise and lower the sub zone’s volume!) This configuration will raise/lower volume only to the speakers that are physically connected to this particular VSE and will be ignored by the rest of the zone. Each other area requiring separate volume control can have a VSE or a keypad/VSE combination. Source selection is still a zone-wide phenomenon, but each sub zone can now regulate its own volume with a keypad, VIA!, or remote control!" taken from Elan's Website


Make sure you spend the time designing the zones and sources before doing this option since it does limit you to 6 sources, and the number of kepads/vse's varies with design.

This message was edited by PHSJason on 03/31/03 19:24.

Actually, if you do an Elan HD system, you could have 10 sources and up to 22 main zones. You can then expand off of that with as many sub-zones as necessary.

The nice thing about the new HD series zone cards, is that they have both variable AND fixed zone outputs that can be used simultaneously.

The cream of ELAN’s crop, the basic HD Series allows you to listen and view up to 10 audio/video sources independently in 10 different areas, called “zones”. The system is expandable all the way up to 24 zones.

HD is a fully modular and fully programmable system, meaning that it can be configured to meet your needs and lifestyle to a tee. Tried and true, ELAN’s HD Series has been considered a benchmark of functionality and flexibility by both custom audio/video installers and homeowners for over 10 years.

System Features:

Independently listen to 10 different music sources in up to 22 zones (or 8 sources in up to 24 zones)

Independently view up to 8 different video sources in up to 24 zones

Each zone can be independently programmed to include/exclude specific features

Zone-Specific Source Lockout

Whole-House and Zone-Specific Paging

Phone-to-Phone Intercom

8 User-Programmable Door Chimes

Independent Access to 9 ELAN Door Stations

Caller-On-Hold

Off-Hook Alert

Telemute

Relay/Macro/Timer Activation via the Telephone…and more


More info can be obtained from their website.


JJP

This message was edited by John Pechulis on 03/31/03 21:49.

Crestron is still king of control and distrubtion products. Not as cheap but saves money on service calls and actually works.


Dave

I totally agree David. But one thing you'll find with Elan is that you don't need to go through the steep learning curve as you do with Crestron to get the desired end result.

Sure the programming is not as flexible as Crestron, but Elan has managed to keep it simple while still getting the job done. And Elan is expanding it's features and programability all the time.



Well, I've done quite a few Elan systems in the past 5 years, and never once had to go back out and replace or fix something with the Elan system itself. Sure we've had some problems with the source components (non-Elan equipment), but I'm sure everyone whose done any system has.

Maybe I've been lucky, but once I've finished tweaking an Elan system, I've been done.

Just my thoughts,

JJP

Possibly you need to look at matrix routing system instead of a 'system' type system.

Having lived in Lexington and walked into to Elan( for service) I can say I like the amps and such. The TP and control I'll just say I don't care for.

For a large project why would you put anything else then the best. If cost is the issue I can understand but don't give me the learning curve. This is where you start. Opening order taken care of and a step toward the higher end. Sure you will be over your head for the short term but no guts no glory or being better than the other guy. Better yourself and be more marketable.

Dave