Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 2 of 2
Topic:
Final System Install Snafu Stories
This thread has 20 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 21.
Post 16 made on Friday February 21, 2003 at 15:06
Thon
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2001
726
I first started in this business doing structured wire for a local builder. I was walking through the house with the customer and all of sudden he turns to me and says "Where are my micro-chips?" I said, "huh"? And he showed me underlined in the builders brochure that the structure wiring was "micro-chip" controlled. Fortunately, we had also installed a security system so I showed him the security panel and he was satisfied. The moral: make sure whoever you're contracted to isn't over advertising your service.
How hard can this be?
Post 17 made on Saturday February 22, 2003 at 10:26
ChicAugur
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2003
170
On 02/17/03 10:57, Eric Johnson said...
Sneaky Pete hates doing prewires for customers
like to buy the system from a chain store, so he
wires every system with a sneaky trick. Inside the
wall he shorts out the speaker wire with a fuse of
about 1/2 amp. Thus, if the customer (or a rival
installation firm) hooks up a an amplifier to
the wiring, it goes into protect (or up in smoke)
as soon as it is fired up. The client eventually
calls Sneaky Pete, who declares that HIS amplifier
will certainly work fine and simply turns on the
amplifier at a loud enough volume to burn the
fuse. The system is normal forever more and Sneaky
Pete tells me he sleeps fine...

My only response to such devious and dastardly behavior is that such an individual must lack the skill and charm to sell himself and his equipment. you shouldn't have to resort to tricking your very own customers into calling you back.

My favorite snafu story: A long time ago the company owner insisted that he be the one to measure a huge continuous run of cable for parking lot lighting. 6 conduits each with 9 cables all #2AWG about 350'-400' long. He spoke of wanting the measurement to be precise and always told us about how much each cable cost per foot yadda yadda yadda you get the picture.

So Instead of having us pull the cable off of complete reels he had each leg cut at the supply house to the exact size.

You should have seen the look on his face when we ended up 10 feet short on every run! Needless to say, no money was saved we had to pull the cable halfway back and we ended up adding junction boxes, butt splicing and heat-shrinking every cable AND we had to order more cable to complete the run! We had to laugh knowing that if one of us made the mistake, he would have chewed us a new one. Instead he sat there shaking his head and talking about how he forgot to "carry the 2" or something when he calculated the run.

It goes to show you how much can be wasted for the sake of saving a few bucks. Leave yourself wiggle room on all of your measurements. If you're long you can cut it, but if you are even 1 inch short you're screwed!
Post 18 made on Saturday February 22, 2003 at 20:05
lunartech
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2003
6
Eric,

You must stress the importance of labeling the wire during rough!
On the job I most recently finished not one of the over 300 total lines was labeled (I did not rough this one) so I spent almost 2 days tracking each one and labeling them myself. The client was there over my shoulder the entire time and asked me evey 15 minutes "What are you doing now?"

Pay attention to what the guy training you is saying and doing. If not you will surely get stumped on a binary problem that costs major time. If you dont understand, make your trainer clarify it.

I was hired independantly to correct a major botched job at a 2 million dollar home, one of the many problems they had was in the middle of the night the audio system would turn on and ramp to full blast and the lights outside would flash.
I did not remove the outlet boxes at the keypad locations to inspect the wiring behind for several days, finally, frustrated I ripped the box out at the front door and found a mutilated cat 5 that was beanied by the pair (blue and blu/white matched up and so on) and after pulling some of the insulation away I found that the same cat 5 was wrapped around the 14 gauge feeding the front porch light, right along with the line that was connected to the motion detector outside. I could feel it literally wrapped around the romex as far as I could reach my arm into the hole. After a very costly and ugly teardown of the wall, re-wired and re-connected the system stopped having problems in the middle of the night.
What was happening?
The motion detector sensed movement after dark and turned on the light which inducted into the audio control line and fired all kinds of signals from the Russound PR4Z.
Electrical induction is no myth.
I also learned later on that the company who installed the system lost their contract with that builder (not because of me, I tactfully refrained from being a tattle) who built about 15 of these types of homes every year.
How is that for making someone paranoid?
Post 19 made on Sunday February 23, 2003 at 09:00
rhm9
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
1,347
One of the big low volt houses around here, for some god-unknown reason, wires cable runs from the strike to a 2 gang location in the garage or some other inconspicuous place and then completes the run to the structured enclosure, leaving it unconnected (an effort to make some other trimout tech look stupid?). I think they may even bury and doc these connections (anything for a little job security).

Eric,
You can also pull a lot of information off of the "Builder Business" forum in which I droned on and on ad infinitum with a gentleman named Brijaws. My beef was that so many wiring jobs are done by electricians with little or no AV training and are therefore, in a word, f----d up! We see million and a half dollar homes being built with daisy chained phones and cable splitters in the wall. My conclusion is that we as an industry are not doing our jobs until a structured wiring package becomes as integral a part of a new home as a roof or indoor plumbing.

Like, lunartech, I have also found induction to be a problem (love that 60 cycle hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm).

One more and I'll go away for awhile. We spent almost 2 weeks fixing a job that was done by one of the electricians "on the side". A few of the local distributors will basically sell to anyone and having a legitimate business license does not seem to be a requirement. This guy was fresh off the turnip truck as far as AV but got the job by being there (I'm sure, unbeknownst to his boss). His subwoofers were run with speaker wire soldered (poorly I might add) to RCAs. They buzzed something fierce because thay were run right with the electrical. of the three cable lines run to the MEC only one would pass a satellite signal as the Romex staples used had absolutely CRUSHED the coax. The network plugs were a joke (no 568a or b standard... just something he made up which left unmatched pairs). Volume controls were all daisy chained ( and no he didn't use an amplified VC... only impedence matched ones). We repaired alot of drywall on this one!!!

Basically a good point to make would be that if you wish to trim out other peoples poorly done jobs, be of the mindset to start over and find just enough things to show your client why you'll now be twice as much as the original guy while nicely not making him/her fell like a dumbs--t!
Post 20 made on Monday February 24, 2003 at 01:10
Aussie AV
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2003
100
Hi Eric.

I'm based in Western Australia, had have just stumbled across this forum. Attended a product training course you did for Niles in PERTH, WA some years ago as a "newbie" and got a lot out of it (hope you are who I'm thinking of!). Thought I'd share a couple of stories that might be of use.

1. On one occassion I went to a newly completed home to quote the owner on supply and installaion of a Home Theatre/Multi-Room System. The place had already been pre-wired, so I quizzed the owner on the extent (and intent) of what he had done so far.

In this process he advised me that the house had already been fitted with a number of pairs of in-ceiling speakers. He told me the make and model (they were supposed to be a high end version of a well known brand), and I immediately realised that they were not what they were supposed to be. I told the client that I was too busy to do the job (I knew that whoever did this couldn't have done a thorough job on the wiring).

I left feeling sorry for the guy, and angry about the practices some companies get away with, giving the industry a bad name.

30 minutes later I was back at his door (correct speaker in hand) and showed him the obvious difference in grill pattern and quality. He then got a ladder and I took out one of the speakers to confirm what they really were (a cheap unit about 1/5th the retail value of what should have been there).

Needless to say he was less than happy with the original installers. I still declined to do the job, as I didn't want him thinking I was trying to torpedo the other guys to get business, and instead referred him to a couple of other firms.

2. While trying to fault find in an RF distribution system that was providing very poor Free-to-Air performance, I had cause to check the modulators located in the equipment cabinet of the client's home theatre. This was quite a nice, fairly high end system worth nearly 6 figures (remeber, its easy to get to 6 figures in Australian $$$).

The modulators and cabling were hidden behind a panel to keep things neat. I removed the panel, and to my horror, I found basic 16 or 18AWG fig8 electrical cable used for the speaker runs, RG6Quad for baseband video to the projector (ie copper-clad steel conductor), and cheap and nasty interconnect (about AUS$3.00 each).

Again the client was less than impressed with those who supplied his theatre, but was happy when I offered to upgrade what cabling I could.

I have since done another theatre for this client, and had numerous referals - the best kind of advertising you can get.

The moral to these stories?

All those aspects to an installation you think the client will never see, they will see one day, and while positive word-of-mouth can make a business, negative can break a business. So don't be tempted to take those short cuts, charge enough for installation to be able to do the job properly, and take pride in both your work and your industry.
OP | Post 21 made on Monday February 24, 2003 at 08:22
Eric Johnson
Universal Remote Control Inc.
Joined:
Posts:
May 2001
705
Great stories, guys! Thanks very much and please tell me more. I really love the induction operating the keypad story. Great stuff.

Yes, Aussie AV, I am the ex-Niles factory guy (I've had an independent manufacturer consulting business for the past 4 years now). I had five trips to Australia for Niles and made some great friends there, particularly in Perth. You live and work in a wonderful city. I had a great time there and expect to get back again sometime this year.
Best Regards,
Eric
Page 2 of 2


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse