Hi Everyone,

I am looking for stories of final installations that went wrong for an upcoming class for CEDIA. If anyone cares to share, lots of newbies will get their eyes opened.

I'll start with my favorite final story. Sneaky Pete hates doing prewires for customers who like to buy the system from a chain store, so he wires every system with a sneaky trick. Inside the wall he shorts out the speaker wire with a fuse of about 1/2 amp. Thus, if the customer (or a rival installation firm) hooks up a an amplifier to the wiring, it goes into protect (or up in smoke) as soon as it is fired up. The client eventually calls Sneaky Pete, who declares that HIS amplifier will certainly work fine and simply turns on the amplifier at a loud enough volume to burn the fuse. The system is normal forever more and Sneaky Pete tells me he sleeps fine...

Tell Pete he should pop the fuse with a battery rather than risk an amplifier, especially if we're talking about a customer's equipment.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com
My system

I would have to say thats pretty shady. Sneaky Pete pull that with me and I would blow my fuse. I feel bad for the innocent guy called to finish the job.

that's exactly why we meter every wire before and after a prewire (if we didn't do it), and right before final install.

dave

How about this one... as a warning

If you are a low voltage contractor/ business owner and you are called in on some commercial or condo job at the same time as union electricians, (you know... the ones that wish to be forever protected by the IBEW... the ones who hate anyone with actual initiative) be sure to get in after they are done and prior to sheetrock to check your wires.

I had a bunch of them treat me very hostily when the answer to their "What union you with?" question was answered with " I own my own company". They kicked my drill, they set ladders wherever I was working and sort of dared me to move them and basically made me feel like I was going to get my ass kicked all day. I had a bad feeling so I got with the future owner and checked the wiring; of course finding out that a lot of my wires had been cut and taped together with the tape joint residing inside the hole drilled in a stud (some were now unconnected, some were shorted and others were now out of phase). The owner complained but Mr General was unsympathetic so I rewired everything and made a great friend/client. I can just picture the nightmare that would have come had I gone in to trim this one out without ever checking.

Eric, your classes at CEDIA are very good, which one will this be? I certainly recommend your classes to anyone reading as you are a great speaker and teacher. Thanks.

It's not the Test Meister but everyone should own a Goldline ZM1 impedance meter with calculated watts. I never connect any load to an amplifier without verifying its integrity first.

I've had union troubles before too. 'They' put staples in my coax runs....

I guess some union people are jealous that we actually like what we do for a living.

I feel qualified to comment on the subject of Union having been on both sides of the fence so-to-speak. Forgive me for going into a short history of the Union but I think it's pertinent.

From the time you enter the field as an apprentice you are given the history of the Union and how it came to be. Without a doubt, at the time Unions were in desperate need of being formed. People were made vicitms to large businesses in search of cheap labor at times of low employment. Of course corporations were able to do this because in most every case they could find suitable replacements with no problem at all. This bred horrible working conditions where saftey and job security were secondary to productivity. People were considered just another overhead expense firmly planted in obstruction of larger profits.
The union was formed when workers discovered that as a collective they could put pressure on the company to raise the standards of pay and working conditions via strikes

But strikes were of little consequence if you cannot squelch the flow of labor through the gates.
(Homework: watch the Grapes of Wrath)
The Labor Movement truly became a physical and mental battle where qualified workers did whatever they could risking arrest and sometimes even death to maintain job security and raise the quality of working conditions.

Eventually the companies gave in one by one realizing that by making concessions they were able to "invest" in the workforce creating skilled and highly productive individuals that were happy in their job. The men outside the gate willing to take their place became less desirable to companies that felt battling the Union a lot of trouble.

They have truly paved the road for many of us today.

However, the One-of-Us mentallity of the Union remains today that says to all
"Either you are with us, or you're against us"
A Union worker takes personal offense when faced with losing work to a person willing to work for less in lesser conditions. Frankly, I don't blame them.

I'm sure many of you know people that have hired foreign workers with questionable status because they are cheap. Personally I have seen the guys that will work all day for ten dollars an hour wearing tennis shoes and riding a bike to work. And yes, they'll work their asses off too. If the Unions didn't fight hard and raise the bar like they do, there would be a lot more people like this.

When it comes to challenging the Union you have to ask yourself this-
Am I raising the bar, lowering it, or at least maintaining it.)
Raising the bar means hiring qualified individuals
(Or educating them) and paying them a fair wage for their efforts; keeping the jobsite safe; working reasonable hours and compensating the workers accordingly if faced with unusual situations.
Lowering it means hiring unskilled workers and keeping them stupid so that their chances of a raise a infrequent. It means holding their poor performance over their head and doing little to make them a better technician. It means keeping them just happy enough to keep them from quitting and just miserable enough to keep most of the money in your pockets.

People here tend to be well educated and knowledgeable in their field. They shouldn't be lowballing jobs to the point that other competent contractor installers cannot compete. I know of a guy that has the "brains" to run his business but his success depends on using 1-2 educated guys that bullwhip a crew of greencard Mexicans and Polish laborers that will work in horrific conditions with little or no additional compensation. It's damn near criminal, and can most of us-Union or not compete against this? Hell no!

Well Union electricians tend to think that "Hey we can do that!" In all actuallity, they could if a Union AV shop out their decided to take them on and teach them all there is to know about the industry. But the entire industry has stealthily slipped by them and the whole support network that the Union has built where if you lose one man you can get an "equally qualified" man from the hall just doesn't ring true when it comes to custom theater installations.(Apologies for record breaking run on senteces)

Electricians have a !#@$load of knowledge to absorb in their own field and making the transition I can tell you that their is a whole other !#$@load of knowledge to absorb in the AV field as well. Very few of them can be experts in all areas. Larry Fine is one of the few gurus out there. He's as gifted as they come and rare as hell. Unions do not want to recognize that they can't do it all and therefore fight back in all ways. Even ways that are unethical and unprofessional.

Frankly I avoid work in areas that are heavily Union populated. I don't need the grief. But when I am approached by a Union worker and asked "are you Union" I say I'm pro Union but unaffiliated. I'm licsensed, follow code, and maintain Union high standards and educate each worker through my door. This is about all they can ask for.
Some Union guys just want some respect (however undeserving) and will most likely have no clue as to what you are doing. Don't let them tell you that you are a scab. A scab is someone that crosses a picket line.(Which you shouldn't do)-Wait for medation with the owner and builder and argue your case reasonably and prove yourself as a professional) if you can't convince them why you should be there and not them, cut your losses, enforce your contract and move on to greener pastures.
The one successful Union AV contractor I know operates a first class business that actually takes guys from the Union and "re-schools" them- Really invests a lot of time and money and produces an unstoppable really smart crew of guys that are very happy with where they are. Each of them become well rounded experts and well paid and why shouldn't they? They are a rare breed.

One note worth mentioning and I don't know if it's even true or not but I heard of a contractor fighting Unions by creating absurdly competent and educated workforce and then exeeding his local Union pay and benefits (by a lot with each guy earning close to six figures) and remaining unaffiliated. Have any of you heard of this or is this just a bunch of crap? The Unions can't cry foul because he raised the bar so high even the Union can't reach it.

THE END
If you made it this far, I'm impressed!

Wow! Thanx for the complement, Chic. I don't know if I deserve that, but thanx.

I, too, have had my experiences with union guys. Here in Richmond, Va, they are Local #666. How's that for a number!

We just completed a job doing lighting for a large-scale sculpture (about 100') that will span the interior of a 'skybridge', an enclosed walkway over a street connecting two buildings, for the new Richmond Convention Center.

The artist, Ed Carpenter, hired us independently of the two large electrical contractors (hundreds of employees each) doing the rest of the job, both of which are union shops.

The job entailed installing a 24-circuit, computer-driven lighting panel, a run of about 135' of 4 3/4" conduits to reach the beginning of the bridge, and, spaced along the length of the bridge, 24 individual track-light strips, each with 4 50-watt, low-voltage, high-intensity heads.

The first day we arrived, we received no more than cold glances from the electricians we bumped into, including the ones we had to interact with (because we had to receive three-phase power from one of their power panels).

Apparently, they felt threatened by our mere existence. We lost a fishtape and a 50' extension cord to the job. They just walked away by themselves. (yeah, right!) We considered it to be a small loss, overall.

However, the few guys we bumped into on a daily basis became friendly, and we even lent tools to them a couple of times. Even their foreman became friendly with us by the time we finished the job. I gave him advice on putting together some AV stuff he'd recently bought.

We believe that simply getting to know the individuals we work beside can dispell the concern that we're 'out to take thier work away'. Fortunately, there was no sabatoge to the work we did, and everything powered up and worked right the first time.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

ChicAugur,
You did a fine job of educating those of us who dont understand the need for a union. I would agree that in the beginning Union's were neccessary to avoid greed and misuse at a corporate level, but what about today? There are many stories of Unions driving the cost of products up with unreasonable demands, disproportionate wages, and too many frills for Union employee's. The NY city workers story that recently came out sits in my mind as a prime example. It seems that Unions have become too powerful for our own good. Of course on the other side of the coin, every time one of my benefits gets cut to futher the corporate profits, a Union starts to look attractive. I was just wondering if you could shed some light on the dark side of Unions, just as you have the light side.

Hey guys,

This has been great, but I am still looking for stories that instruct, tell tale hints, practical theories about life installing multiroom/multizone systems, anything that you can recall from your daily lives that would help a newbie gain a wiser (or shall we say, more paranoid) approach to final installation and hook up...

The class will be given twice this year in the CEDIA track for EHExpo in Orlando next week and in November in Long Beach. It is called Final Installation and TroubleShooting.

rhm9 ,
The next job you are in, you should try some wireless surveilance cameras in disquise. I would love to catch someone cutting my wires on purpose. Union or non-union. I would turn it over to my lawyer and watch how fast they settle.

Ok Eric,
I have one for you. I was on a job installing 4 ceiling mounted speaker enclosures, the kind that flip down to project the speakers 45 degrees into the room. I was trying to adjust the set screw so that all the speakers would line up when opened, and mistakenly tuned it closed too far. This was part my fault, part the manufacturers, because the label on the drive was upside down, making me turn the screw the opposite direction that I should have. The result was that when I tripped the relay, the unit closed, and when I tripped it again, only three opened. DOH! I had set the adjustment so that it had reached its max open while still closed. Since the speaker and lift were already mounted, I had no way to get to the adjustment screw. I finally drilled a small hole in the enclosure, one that could be easily patched, and bought a cheap, long, thin, screwdriver and thru trial and error, finally backed the set screw out far enough that the lift would open. Moral to the story? Make lots of small adjustments instead of one big one and consider the extra time well spent.

This answer belongs elsewhere----->Union Thread






This message was edited by ChicAugur on 02/24/03 20:26.

Eric

Years ago I was working in the then second tallest building in the State Capitol city. I will leave the name out because, frankly, I don't think the customer will see this, but I do respect their privacy. I had been brought in to the job about three fourths of the way through, as the original guy on the job had taken a different offer (more then that, but that's enough.)

Anyhow, the building had great views. They owned the top floor.

I was installing a multi zone, multi source system. I had just finished programming the xantech 730 keypads (pre clone era, so each pad needed to be programmed).
I scheduled the final walk through, only to have the homeowner tell me that she had been told that the system would have a global keypad location in the front hall as well as zone only keypads in every other room in the house.

Well. AMC's Dave Williams came through after several desperate conversations, and designed a series of diodes and such so that I could indeed have global controls from one keypad location.

I ended up putting two more weeks into the job building the circuit, cutting in a double gang box and getting a 10 gang decora (try that if you dare...) trim, programming many of the devices over, etc.

The moral: Know where you are going. Make sure you and your customer agree on where you are going. Get it in writing. Know your equipment. Never promise what you can't deliver.