I have a friend who is the owner of a custom A/V company in Chicago. He's been in business for about 5 years. He says he does installs from $5,000.00 up to about $100,000.00. He has just asked me if I would like to work for him programming some of the above mentioned systems. I am a computer whiz and I've programmed Prontos for about three years, but I don't have any experience with these higher-end systems. He says he will pay me $100.00 per system, each one starting out with a template and then to customize it per the clients wishes. I have several questions I hope you can answer.

1. How difficult is it to learn each of the above mentioned systems.

2. Is $100.00 per system enough of a payment. Especially when I've seen pricing from $100.00 to $150.00 per hour.

3. Is getting paid per project foolish. I am assuming getting paid hourly would be a better method especially with each project being custom.

4. If I should go hourly, what would be an acceptable rate I could expect in Chicago (I expect I will be an independant consultant and not an employee of his).

Any insight from this group would be very helpful.

Thanks.

Sounds like your friend is trying to rip you off. Independent Crestron and AMX programmers receive at least $90.00 per hour. A typical theater project can run up to $4,000.00 depending on what is being controlled. Just call one up and ask what they charge in Chicago.

A hundred beans a project is pretty light for an experienced Pronto programmer, especially if you need to do the travelling to the site on your own dime, and with no benefits or other $$ analogs.

With no experience with the higher end systems, you will find it pretty hard to get started in any regard. Programming those things, as I expect you know from your Pronto experience, is as much installation as it is programming. Once you've sat down to begin, without having a class to help you start, you are looking at days or weeks, I promise you. At $100 per job, the carrot is pretty small (and shrivelled!), and that stick is mightly long.

A flat rate is not the correct way to bill for this work. It does not take into account anything such as the complexity of the system, access to the site (Elmhurst project you can walk to vs. Water Tower Place job you need to drive to, park, clear security, wait for elevator, etc.)

I believe I can program a single room Crestron system top to bottom and test it, using one of my templates that I know by heart, in under four hours. A flat rate of $100 is not enough to get my heart racing, I can tell you.

That sound pretty rediculous to me. Especially in Chicago.

Even froma Template, A basic crestron control takes me between 4 and 10 hours to program and tweak. Even a Pronto can take a couple hours if you want it easy to use, several more to make it perfect.

I've been a Crestron Programmer for over 6 years, Prontos since day 1, Some experience with AMX/Phast, and also learning Java and Flash now. I would have a hard time not bursting into laughter if someone offered me a flat rate to program anything. ANd would probobly walk out if they offered only $100

What type of WIZ are you? Are you good with photoshop and custome graphics and logos. Cuz you realy dont need to be a WIZ to programing these systems, its more important being a talented designer.

But still, Sounds like yer getting riped.

I don't see a problem with a per project pricing, but there are some guidelines to follow. First of all, base your work in days, not hours. Maybe a half day rate if it's in the "office" and somebody else is loading it. In the greater NY area the rate is around 900\Day for field time, just to give you an idea. Make sure that you develop a quotation that has a scope of work, so that you don't get sucked into the giant void of undocumented change orders. This gives you the ability to always explain that the new update wasn't part of the job, and you must be paid for the change (just as the integrator is getting a change order for the new equipment\labor ;) ).

Hope this helps, too.
-Jon

I could see someone offering a newbie systems programmer 100 bucks for a pronto program, but crestron is another story. If this friend of yours is selling crestron control systems, then he is literally screwing you if he expects you to program touch panels for a mere 100 bucks. As a company owner, I sub contract crestron programming for 75-100 bucks per hour. Some systems take 5 hours, some take 30.

To my knowledge experienced Crestron or AMX programmers make about $125 per hour, and are worth every penny. The key is EXPERIENCED. This means Crestron certified. It may sound expensive, but these people have access to modules and templates and can put together complex systems in a few hours that would take a mere mortal weeks to develop from scratch.

Gleski,

May offier some free advice??!! Alrighty then....

Invest in Astroglide, KY Jelly, and Vaseline!!

Nuff said!

Being a computer wiz will not help you with programming crestron. It may help you with using a computer, but that's about it.

It's a different animal, far more complex than a pronto. Good luck. And don't let your 'friend' rip you off.

Gleski,
I have an MS in electrical engineering and I have been to Crestron training, but I run my own shop so I don't have the time to focus exclusively on programming. Therefore I occasionally fork over $125/hr to my local Crestron programmer for the tough stuff. The point being that if you get up to speed you can hang your shingle and pull in the big bucks. Since you're not there yet you might make a deal with your boss to send you to school and you'll do a couple systems for certain amount ($100 is rediculous), after that you renegotiate. That's what I would try, the Crestron training is worth it.

Can you say Ladder Logic?!!

Can you?

I thank all of you for your responses. I knew he was trying to pull a fast one on me.

There was a lot of talk about Crestron programming in the $90 to $125 range. Realistically, I don't think he has the type of clients that will spend the money on such systems. I really think he has a lot of Niles Intellicontrol clients and wants to get some higher end clients, but doesn't want to pay for the programming.

I believe he has done a lot of the Niles programming in the past and doesn't have the time or skills to learn the Crestron/AMX stuff.

I would love get some formal training with him, and as Thon mentioned, hanf my shingle after that.

Does anyone know where and how much this certified training costs in the Chicago area?

Thanks.

Generally training takes place at the company in Rockeigh NJ. It is free to dealers, but you have to pay your own airfare. You can get schedule info on the net or call 1-888-CRESTRON.