Seems like we got off the subject in the Multi-Room audio post so I thought I would start a new thread.
It appears that in reading the posts in that section, that no one has used the Intellicontrol in conjunction with any other remote.
In response to the Intellicontrol question posted in the multi-room audio thread d all the comments relating to "Higher Order" buttons and the ability to use this remote for "High-End" or custom jobs, The intellicontrol is perfect. The MCU is the truly important part, not the clunky table top box. The MCU will respond to IR commands as well as RF and Niles has available the IR equivalent of every button on the remote. The IR codes are even posted here in the Pronto section. We do exclusively High-End jobs and we use the intellicontrol a lot. Not only does it allow you to sync every component(The MCU knows when the VCR is "on" so it doesn't send the power command again), but the IR library is expandable, easy to modify and simply to program. The MCU has relays for screen or drape control and so far has been bullet proof. We typically start with programming the system to work flawlessly with the table top remote, including all macros, "higher order" buttons, and all the functions that a client could want. With a good size system, this usually takes about 2-4 hours including testing. We then take a Pronto or Pronto Pro and customize it to control the Intellicontrol. Here, we can give a client a "Ratio" button or assign channel macros. We can get as custom as we want. The MCU supports IR routing or will allow IR pass-thru. The biggest plus to this system is that once the syncs are done, the system and macros work perfectly every time, no exceptions, even with no discrete codes.

Thanks for carrying this thread forward.

The process you describe sounds like it works well for you. Seems the cost for the setup equals a Crestron package, for those dealers with access to Crestron. I'm not arguing that Crestron is better than a Intellicontrol/Pronto hybrid is better or worse, but I am wondering if a hybrid is harder to program (maybe) and more prone to failure (not based on your experience, but more parts equals more parts to fail).

A Crestron package costs about the same as your hybrid, yes?

As far as the cost goes, add $750.00(cost of the MCU alone), or $1199.00(cost of a full Intellicontrol) to the price of any touchscreen, learning remote. We have done them with TSU2000's, TSU6000's and have a client who wants to use an iPronto with thier Intellicontrol. The level of flexibility and options are another plus to this appoach over a Crestron system or a Via! Valet. Add to this the price of either a "Y" cord(for video sync$1.50) or an LS1(light sensor aka last resort$100.00) or an APC2(current sensing outlet with 12volt out or contact closure$150.00) and you get the total price. We usually do the full Intellicontrol for most of our clients. A lot of people while loving automation, are not comfortable with touchscreen remotes. Having the RF remote gives the client a remote for guests or a dedicated RF zone 2 remote(works great in the Kitchen). Having the Intellicontrol remote also allows us to break the programming down for testing purposes. A typical system uses the Intellicontrol IR library and commands for source and input macros(allowing us to use the sync capabilities) and then uses IR pass thru for channel or (custom) macros.
As far as programming goes, add 1-2 hours to set up and test the MCU for source and input macros, then take off 1-2 hours for having to hunt for discretes or program "Power Pages" to eliminate point and pray macros.(you can also take off another hour for client instructions when you don't have to explain to a client why everything turns on and off automatically except the TV and VCR and why they have thier own power controls)
Troublshooting hasn't been a problem as long as you keep the programming seperate ie:power/source macros and basic functions in the Intellicontrol with the Pronto merely sending Intellicontrol commands. this is another good reason to have the Intellicontrol remote.

The level of flexibility

What are you saying the Creston Lacks...... I'd really like to hear this one...



Add to this

And how is your "Y" cable maintaining the video signal? Composite video is bad enough to start with... (The fact that you even use it makes me wonder about your "High End" statements



Sounds like you can do a Crestron for a couple bucks more.....

We usually do the full Intellicontrol

I really find this hard to believe.... Are you sure it isnt your salesman having issues selling a "More Expensive" remote?


Isnt forcing 2 remotes on your clients defeating the purpose of a universal control?

If they have issues with Touchscreens, Why are they buying prontos to go with there hard button remotes?

and really, what can intellicontrol do that Crestron cant?

Asked and (implicitly) answered. I'm wondering why the combination/hybrid/what have ya, and how clients react to it.

Some people react badly to touchscreens, yes. In my experience, the objections come from three sources; eyesight problems (totally legit), technopobia (legit again, I'm here to serve the client, not force feed them), or a previous bad experience with a touchscreen designed by a boob.

I'm experimenting at home with a hard-button remote control that has gained high praise at remotecentral.com. My main problem with it is the lack of labellable buttons. With a limit as to what the button can say, there is a limit to what the user can understand the button to do. My memory is weakening with years (what forum am I in right now, anyway?), and I'm sure my clients are often in the same state.

If I can't program a button that tells my wife how to turn on the whole-house system in the kitchen & upstairs office in one keystroke, it's not a great remote. With 5 letters to pick from on the LCD, that's not enough. I can get the remote to do it, no problem, but letting her know (or reminding myself a week later) is the problem. A simple LCD display with the button labelled Work Day Music works perfectly. Or, the tiered approach where the button labelled Whole House Music leads you to a subpage that lets you select which rooms play. "Honey, press Whole House Music. Then, press the buttons for the rooms you want to play. If you want to play a different station than the default channel we set up, call up the satellite guide and choose one." I don't call my clients Honey, but I do use my smart, smart wife as an example of an intelligent person that does not know how to run a stereo system. If I can make it simple for her to run my clunky combination of equipment at home, then the systems I put together for clients can be made to operate well using the same control logic.

I've had one client go from Crestron touchpanels to HTM MX-700's because he found the Crestrons too much work to use. I'll attribute that in part to my letting him design the touchpanels (big, big mistake), and his general unhappyness with a two-handed remote.

To clarify, I was not saying one system was better than another, merely that there are options available that seem to be overlooked(especially sync capability for anyone with any learning remote). The Crestron sytem is a great remote as are a lot of other products out there. This is merely one approach for the customer who wants a small hand held remote that works easily and correctly. "What does this have that Crestron doesn't?" the abiliy to choose any remote your client has taken a liking to in their other homes and now you can make it work even better than it ever did before.

As for the technical aspects of your question..........
"And how is your "Y" cable maintaining the video signal? Composite video is bad enough to start with... (The fact that you even use it makes me wonder about your "High End" statements"
Composite video is the only type of video sync input the Intellicontrol uses. The MCU requires a very minimal voltage to be present on the video cable for sync purposes and the blue screen generated by most VCR's will suffice. In addition, the video sync inputs on the MCU are rated at 10,000ohm resistance ensuring that the video signal is uneffected by splitting. As for using the composite video cable for a high end job, we typically use the composite video from every source as a back-up and to assist in initial audio set-up. I find that having the on-screen menus for initial set-up makes things go a lot faster and I have yet to see a preamp with high definition on-screen menus, not to mention the signal loss generated by running a 1080i signal through a preamp not rated for the bandwidth(we direct connect the DVD, and the HD Satellite bypassing the preamp since there is no advantage to running them through the preamp). I stress that this is for set-up only. Once the audio is configured properly for every input, then the video inputs are set correctly. This also gives a fall back method for testing should a product ever malfunction.


"I really find this hard to believe.... Are you sure it isnt your salesman having issues selling a "More Expensive" remote?
Isnt forcing 2 remotes on your clients defeating the purpose of a universal control?"

Forcing two remotes on anyone would be very bad manners. We give the client the option to buy the system with and without the Intellicontrol remote and to date, everyone has opted for having both remotes(or starting with the Intellicontrol remote and then adding the Pronto later). There are quite a few of those table top remotes that are being used as a "Floating Zone 2 RF Remote".

Another point regarding the intellicontrol remote is that anyone with a 2nd grade IQ can operate a large sytem with it regardless of how complicated the macros for screen lowering, light dimming, drape control, and video inputs are. A lot of our clients have guests or relatives stay in their homes while they are off in other parts of the country. One of our clients merely puts the Pronto Pro away, then sets the Intellicontrol remote on the table before he leaves. The Intellicontrol will run the whole system, but he feels more comfortable knowing that anyone who uses the system while he is away has only limited access to it.

As for the last issue raised "If they have issues with Touchscreens, Why are they buying prontos to go with there hard button remotes?" We do use hard button remotes, but very few hard button or touchscreen remotes have relay or 12volt control out for lighting or motorization. We do a lot of sytems with drop down screens or motorized drapes and almost every sytem has lighting control. The Intellicontrol allows us to control these easily.
This system is not for everyone, this is just our approach to achieving a reliable high-end system with customization and flexibility.

phsjason, where can I find the pronto codes for the intellicontrol MSU?? You mentioned something about a pronto pro controling an intellicontrol msu. Great idea especially for multi room or multi function pages. Thanking you in advance.

later
ben

found the codes thanks

Way to go PHSJason. You know your Intellicontol. You seem to have answered all Impaqt's questions. People who have not tried an Intellicontrol dont understand the amazing simplicity of one. In my understanding though, there is about 5k worth of difference between a Crestron and an Intellicontrol. That's a bit more than a few bucks.

Crestron pricing is pretty hard to define sometimes. A Crestron system with color touchpanel, rf gateway and cpu costs $2900 before programming. I can make a strong argument that the big color Crestron touchpanel is a pretty compelling item. Deduct the cost of an Intellicontrol of at least $1000 (I don't know the actual price, my price sheet on that unit is written on a clay tablet in Sanskit), and it makes the spread between the Niles and the Crestron $2k or less before programming in both cases. Yes, a basic single room system program in Crestron can be done in 4 hours or less if you've done a few before.

I'm not saying Niles and Crestron are in the same league, and I'm sure Niles would concur. However, I am saying the gulf between is narrower than one might expect, and the reasons to go from one to the other are pretty compelling.

Combining the pronto tsu6000 with an RF repeater to a Niles Intellicontrol and a Niles 4.6Ci gives you the ability to have a complete home theatre and 6 zone system all controlled through the color pronto. Very slick and everything can be signal/power synced. The range on the pronto 6000 is much better than the Crestron RF gateway. The only difference is there will be no feedback to the pronto.

I know that the customers I have want to know exactly what's happening in every zone. A one way remote isn't going to cut it for a multi-zone system. Crestron now has the Mini-Touch if you want a one way pronto style remote. By the way, I've never had problems with the Crestron one way gateway (successfully operated ST1550 700' away!). Any two way gateway has a smaller range. Have you ever considered using an e-control Crestron system with a computer tablet enabled with an 802.11b wireless adapter and a wireless router in your lan? It will give you the two way feedback and a larger range of operation. Also, you can sense power\video signal, but I've been on many threads where there have been huge complaints about the lack of power difference on HD Sat Boxes and when you try to video sense it, the composite video loses signal when you switch between SD and HD. Source Decks draw an incredibly small amount of power...so if there isn't discrete power commands, I consult to leave it on.

Just my two cents :)