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Topic:
RFX9600 blues
This thread has 27 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Saturday October 23, 2021 at 00:14
cosmicvoid
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Picked up a used RFX9600 to use with my TSU9400 for RS-232 control of a new LG OLED TV. After reading a long list of search hits on this forum, I seem to have solved the problems getting the TSU9400 to connect thru an ASUS AP, using static IPs, i.e. the icon next to the battery status on the Home page shows a WiFi symbol. This supposes that the TSU9400 actually is talking to the RFX.

I made up a quick test screen to put a couple of buttons that send ascii strings to a RS-232 port (using ProntoEdit 1.1). My problem is that the RFX never shows any RS-232 LED activity, nor any busy LED. Since the communication seems to be functional, I'm assuming the problem is in the RFX. I've tried 2 different ports in the 9400 config, no joy. A scope shows a steady -6v on the TX-out pin of the port.

I'm lost as to how to troubleshoot this. I don't fancy tearing the RFX unit open as that would probably be a waste of time. Any suggestions on what to try next?
Post 2 made on Saturday October 23, 2021 at 03:02
Lyndel McGee
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0. Why are you still using the older TSU9400 software. Why not PEP2?
1. You should make sure the firmware in the extender is supported by the TSU9400 firmware you are running. Have you updated firmwares to match?
2. Did you try using Fixed IP addresses for the Extender within the Pronto Config itself? - Just because you set a fixed IP address on the extender does not mean Pronto uses that - Pronto will still try to discover extenders.
3. If you try to send an IR command to Port 1 of the extender, does the IR port light up?

Last edited by Lyndel McGee on October 23, 2021 03:28.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
OP | Post 3 made on Saturday October 23, 2021 at 16:21
cosmicvoid
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0. It does what I need to do. I rarely make any config changes any more, and don't have any motive to suffer another learning curve with PEP2. This old dog doesn't want to learn any new tricks.

1. The RFX was running 1.4.7, and I upgraded to 1.4.8 to see if it would make a difference. It didn't seem to. The TSU9400 is running 7.1.21, and the newer versions seem to require using PEP2, which I'm not interested in. I have no clue about the compatibility of the versions.

2. Yes, static IPs all around. The RFX is configured to 192.168.1.40, which is declared in the TSU System Properties -> Extenders -> Extender 1. The TSU is set to 192.168.1.20, declared in System Properties -> Wireless Settings, using WEP128. SSID matches the Asus AP one.

3. I configured a 3rd button on my test page to send a IR command to the extender. This also produces no activity on the RFX LEDs. I'm less confident that the 3rd button is configured correctly.

So I guess this suggests that the TSU is not actually communicating with the RFX, dispite showing a "connected" icon. Connected to what?? Maybe I should reconfigure both RFX & TSU to a different subnet, to rule out the TSU seeing my main LAN AP, which is not using WEP either.

Again, I'm not sure how to troubleshoot this. Should I try bumping the RFX firmware to a lower version (1.3.8)?

Last edited by cosmicvoid on October 23, 2021 16:33.
Post 4 made on Sunday October 24, 2021 at 15:22
Lyndel McGee
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You can try to move to lower RFX version.

You might also want to try running some diagnostics on the extender using the information in this post.

[Link: remotecentral.com]

However, since you don't want to make the move to PEP2, not sure you will want to tackle this.

I only used the software you are running one time to test out a TSU9400. I've not owned a TSU9400 in over 11 years.

Wish I could be of more help but this is all I've got.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
OP | Post 5 made on Monday October 25, 2021 at 02:00
cosmicvoid
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Ok Lyndel,
Thanks for your reply.

Pete Geraghty's post is very interesting, as is his github post. Yeah, trying to tap into the RFX's tcpdump would bite off way more than I could chew. I'm not a Linux geek. Maybe if I was 30 years younger.

Doing simpler things, I have the TSU "talking" to a different WAP, to see if there might be a wireless issue. Interestingly, the TSU will show a WiFi "connect" icon even when there is no cable from the WAP to the RFX. The only indication that the RFX is "alive" is the ethernet LED lights up appropriately, and it responds to my laptop in configuration mode. But in user mode (switch posn 1) it is unresponsive.

When connecting the laptop, I've used the switch position 2, which calls for a xover cable, but I use a straight cable, as this used RFX didn't come with a xover cable. But I think ethernet ports nowdays don't care about that and will automatically swap tx/rx pairs. I might try doing user mode with a xover cable, but I don't expect it will make any difference. I'll have to try a replacement RFX box to see if I have a dud unit.

Maybe I should give my laptop the static IP that I gave the RFX, and see if it gets any traffic from the TSU. I think of using a RaspberryPi to do WiFi to RS-232, but I don't want to start another humongous project. Or I could use an Arduino to do IR code to RS-232 string look-up. That might be a quick project.
Post 6 made on Monday October 25, 2021 at 22:02
Lyndel McGee
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If you are interested in the Pi route, ping me offline via email on my profile. Can't do IR but can do everything else.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 7 made on Monday November 1, 2021 at 01:46
ask4mikie
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Hi Cosmic,

In PEP, have you gone to Network Settings in System Properties and set them up? Have you added the extender? Does the actual extender have the same number as in PEP?

Playing around in PEP, I had to add a Dummy TV in the database and set it up as a serial component. Then I added a couple dummy commands. It took me a while to figure out that you can't add the commands in the top grid, you have to enter them in the box below. Duh! There is also a little down-arrow control that will add carriage returns, linefeeds, etc.

So then I added the Dummy TV to my project and set it to use the extender. On the extenders, you have to also set the ports to use. When I was setting up the Dummy TV(serial component), PEP would then show me the serial ports. If I was setting up an IR component, it would show me the IR ports. You may have to move the divider between the top and bottom of the screen up to see the port setting. I took me a while to figure that out.

When you see the busy light on the extender flash, you are communicating with it! This means you have gotten from the remote, through the wifi, through the network, to the extender!

I like to connect from my computer through an rs-232 cable directly to the tv, I then use a free program called Hercules to send the commands to the tv. It also shows the response back. Once this is working, I know the cable is correct, and all the parameters are also correct, and the tv is set to respond to the commands.

Rs-232 Parameters

Baud is comm speed, often 9600.
Data Bits is the bits in a word, 7 or 8, usually 8.
Parity is error correction, odd, even, etc. usually N for none.
Stop Bits is the bits that end a word, 1 or 2, usually 1.

You often see this as 9600-8-N-1, for example.

The extender and the tv need to be set the same.

RS-232 connectors are usualy 9 pins. There are 25 pin connectors, but I never see them used. Pin 2 is Tx, Pin 3 is Rx, and Pin 5 is Signal Ground. There are 2 types of cable, straight-through and null-modem (crossed). On the straight-through cable, Pin 2 on one connector is wired to Pin 2 on the other, Pin 3 to Pin 3, and Pin 5 to Pin 5. If you look closely, sometimes there tiny little pin numbers next to the pins.

On a null-modem cable, the Tx and Rx are crossed, so it's Pin 2 to Pin 3, Pin 3 to Pin 2, and Pin 5 to Pin 5. You can buy either type of cable already made, or build your own. There are also null-modem converters that you can add to a straight-through cable to make it null-modem. In a mind boggling twist, you can also add a null-modem converter to a null-modem cable to make it straight-through!

You also need to think through where you need female connectors and where you need male connectors. There are also gender changers, like null-modem converters.

Serial Port 4 on the RFX9600 is a special port. You connect TX, Rx, and Signal Ground wires to the screw terminals on a 3-pin Phoenix connector and plug it in. This is convenient if you are testing cables, making your own cables, etc. If the RFX-9600 doesn't have the connector anymore, check an electrical supply house near you, or A----n.

If you think you have everything correct and it's still not working, try switching the rs-232 cable. This often magically fixes the problem!


Good luck with your tv!
OP | Post 8 made on Tuesday November 2, 2021 at 03:47
cosmicvoid
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104
Hi Mikie,

I'm very familiar with RS-232, been using it since the late 1970's, back when it was only a DB-25 connector. Then IBM co-opted the DE-9 connector in the PC-AT, and all the hardware illiterates erroneously called it a DB-9. Been writing serial comm code for 40-some years.

>> Playing around in PEP, I had to add a Dummy TV in the database
>> and set it up as a serial component.

I don't see a way to specify "serial component" in PEP1 database, and command codes are IR only. Is this feature only in PEP2 or later?

There is only a "RS-232 command" action that lets you set the serial port number, but its not part of the database and not directly associated with a component.
Post 9 made on Tuesday November 2, 2021 at 18:18
Lyndel McGee
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As you noted, you cannot specify a serial component in PEP1. You must add the serial actions individually, couple them to an extender, and to a serial port.

IMO, the move to the component database of serial commands in PEP2 was not a very good idea as it forced users to add functions for each and every serial command they wanted to send in the database vs allowing ad-hoc testing via a single action. Yes, it does allow you to share components easily but the standardization of component function names is less likely on a serial component.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 10 made on Wednesday November 3, 2021 at 02:24
ask4mikie
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In PEP2 & 3, you can go into My Database, and add a new component. Then you go to Component Properties, and there is a Control Type drop-down box where you select IR or RS. I didn't notice this before, but the rs-232 parameters can be set at the bottom of the page. This probably means you don't have to set parameters in the RFX9600.

It's been so long since I used PEP1 that I don't remember it too well. You might try PEP2 and see if you like it. Be sure to backup your project before opening it in PEP2. I think I remember something about problems going back to PEP1 from PEP2.

What model of LG tv do you have? I have seen a few times where the more expensive models will have IP or RS control, but the cheaper ones don't. I assume you have the RS-232 protocol document?

Sometimes it is hard to understand the commands that are available. On my Samsung there are all kinds of commands for arcane picture settings, but there is no channel up or channel down. I can set it to a specific channel, but I have to do hex arithmetic on it and calculate the checksum for it.

Does the tv possibly have an IR input jack on the back? That might be an alternative.

What are you doing as far as network security? I only remember seeing something like WEP 128, which is not sufficient. One idea I had was to use the guest network that a lot of routers have now, but I haven't done that myself.

Sorry for the long posts, but I don't have anyone to talk about this kind of stuff with. Trying to talk to my wife, I can see her eyes rolling back in her head after 15 seconds!
Post 11 made on Wednesday November 3, 2021 at 02:46
ask4mikie
Long Time Member
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This is a screenshot of the Component Settings.

[Link: 1drv.ms]

Last edited by ask4mikie on November 3, 2021 04:16.
Post 12 made on Wednesday November 3, 2021 at 23:30
Lyndel McGee
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On November 3, 2021 at 02:24, ask4mikie said...
Sorry for the long posts, but I don't have anyone to talk about this kind of stuff with. Trying to talk to my wife, I can see her eyes rolling back in her head after 15 seconds!

Do you need a support group? ;-) After 12K plus posts over 20 years, I know I do.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
OP | Post 13 made on Thursday November 4, 2021 at 03:03
cosmicvoid
Long Time Member
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104
After reading a very long list of search hits on this forum, I decided, out of desperation, to bite the bullet, and updated my TSU9400 to firmware 7.3.3-1.4.5, and installed PEP 2.4. Using Win 7 64bit.

Loading my PEP1 xcf into PEP2 went smoothly, with no obvious errors. I changed the config to define the wireless and extender parameters in System Properties. The 9400 seems to connect to the WAP just fine. The extender discovery tool fails to find any extenders (using static IPs). Is this a red flag???

So I set about making some RS-232 components with a few commands mapped into buttons on a page. Initially I was able to specify serial port #4 on the RFX extender, but when I downloaded the config to the 9400, I got several errors saying that there was no serial extender, despite the RFX being selected for that component. Suggests an ethernet issue perhaps? Never see any "busy" activity on the RFX.

Further experimentation produced "Pronto Data Service not running. Please re-install ...." , but re-installing does not fix the error. Switching between the Project and My Database now does not have any serial ports selectable for the component, only IR ports. I see that the new components have been corrupted in My Database.

This initial experience leads me to think that PEP2 is a frustrating, non-intuitive, poorly written piece of garbage (coming from someone who has been doing Windows coding for 25+ years), but I'll try spending a few more hours trying to figure out how to make it work, before I dump the RFX and pursue a different IR-to-RS-232 converter. I do remember seeing complaints about "Pronto Data Service not running" many years ago, so I'll try to search on that.
Post 14 made on Friday November 5, 2021 at 00:35
ask4mikie
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Hey cosmicvoid,

Sorry to hear you are having difficulties. Installing PEP2 can be a real PITA!

The extender discovery tool may be broadcasting a udp packet to get the extenders to report. Check your router and see if udp is turned off. If you don't want to leave it on, you can turn it off after running the tool. You can just add the extenders manually, you don't have to use the tool.

The Pronto Data Service may just need to be restarted. Open Task Manager/ More Details and go to the Services tab. Scroll down to ProntoDataService and start it. Hopefully this will help with errors you are experiencing.

I got curious about PEP1 yesterday, so I downloaded and installed it. The interface is a real blast from the past! The biggest difference I noticed is that more things have a defined location in PEP2. You could close some of them to make it look more like PEP1. You can always go to View/Reset View Layout. One thing that is good about PEP1 is the big window for pages. I can see it would be handy to have several pages visible at once.

One last thing. On the System Properties and elsewhere there is an easy to miss Use Master Project Properties Checkbox in the upper right corner. When checked, it doesn't allow you to make changes. That has tripped me up several times!

Mike
Post 15 made on Friday November 5, 2021 at 00:37
ask4mikie
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Hey cosmicvoid,

Sorry to hear you are having difficulties. Installing PEP2 can be a real PITA!

The extender discovery tool may be broadcasting a udp packet to get the extenders to report. Check your router and see if udp is turned off. If you don't want to leave it on, you can turn it off after running the tool. You can just add the extenders manually, you don't have to use the tool.

The Pronto Data Service may just need to be restarted. Open Task Manager/ More Details and go to the Services tab. Scroll down to ProntoDataService and start it. Hopefully this will help with errors you are experiencing. You may have to restart PEP2.

I got curious about PEP1 yesterday, so I downloaded and installed it. The interface is a real blast from the past! The biggest difference I noticed is that more things have a defined location in PEP2. You could close some of them to make it look more like PEP1. You can always go to View/Reset View Layout. One thing that is good about PEP1 is the big window for pages. I can see it would be handy to have several pages visible at once.

One last thing. On the System Properties and elsewhere there is an easy to miss Use Master Project Properties Checkbox in the upper right corner. When checked, it doesn't allow you to make changes. That has tripped me up several times!

Mike

P.S. PEP2 does add WPA/WPA2 encryption in Network Settings, so that's a good thing.

Last edited by ask4mikie on November 5, 2021 00:51.
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