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Topic:
Pronto alternatives
This thread has 48 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
OP | Post 16 made on Monday November 1, 2010 at 17:02
sWORDs
Long Time Member
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November 2006
373
On November 1, 2010 at 14:11, gopronto said...
Hi Swords

Why did you not add URC to the list?

I simply entered the one I could think of and asked others to shout some more. Control4, Nevo and URC will be added ofcourse.

Not having hardbuttons will be missed by me, however I'm not sure if customers that never had a Pronto will notice. The onces that had will. I've been playing with an iPad for a few hours and it's clearly to big and heavy to be used as a remote. So I think a smaller Android tablet is a better idea or maybe an Android phone in a custom housing. I'm really curious if I could get a keyboard controller working on the mini usb port, ifso hard buttons should be do able.
Post 17 made on Monday November 1, 2010 at 17:15
gopronto
Senior Member
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April 2008
1,444
a 7" would be more usful, using othere products to fit into a housing is very risky as the design of the phone is likely to change every 6 months.

New iPads are going to be connectorless so that make a couple of products redundant soon.
Apple are going to go to a connectorless dock, patant already released.

It is going to be difficult for installer to find a stable product soon.. unless they move to companies like crestron or AMX , then there is a cost issue.. as most guys wont want to learn the programming skills ...

Fun Times ahead:)
Pronto still one of the best Wi-Fi Remotes,
www.ikonavs.co.nz and [Link: prontoprojects.com] Axium Control catching up fast :)
Post 18 made on Monday November 1, 2010 at 18:14
sydinstaller
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
740
The Nevo do have custom scripting. It is called Nevo Widgets.
It is in its early days (just started in NSP3.0), so it is not as powerful as pronto script was but it is much easier to use and can do some complex programming.

sWORDs. Some Nevo info for your table.

Nevo Q50.
Hard buttons- Yes - lots (31)
IR - YES
RS232 - YES, 2way capable
TCP - NO
UPD - NO
RES - 240x240, not made for screen usage as there are heaps of hard buttons.
GA - ?
CPU - Freescale iMX21 266 MHz
Programming Language - Nevo StudioPro 3.0
DIY - YES, but only supported if purchased from an Authorised dealer. Great support in Australia, not sure about other countries.
Wireless - 2-way RF (Z-Wave)


Nevo S70.
Hard buttons- Yes - (19)
IR - YES
RS232 - YES, 2way capable
TCP - YES
UPD - ? not sure, maybe in Widgets.
HTTP/HTTPS - Yes
RES - QVGA 240x320.
GA - ?
CPU - Freescale iMX21 266 MHz
Programming Language - Nevo StudioPro 3.0
DIY - YES, but only supported if purchased from an Authorised dealer. Great support in Australia, not sure about other countries.
Wireless - 2-way RF (Z-Wave) & WiFi 802.11g
UPnP control interface

* Great Sonos and iPort control interfaces via Nevo plug-in*

D.
Post 19 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 02:17
Guy Palmer
Active Member
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June 2008
648
To me, sWords' table illustrates why there is no obvious alternative to the Pronto. I would put "firm buttons" as an absolute must have, so that cuts out Ipad, Android, etc. And I would also put "available to DIYers" as an absolute must have, so that cuts out AMX, Crestron, RTI, etc. So, that effectively means that there will only be an alternative if someone develops a phone/tablet with hard buttions.
Post 20 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 02:21
dj-dulux
Long Time Member
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April 2010
50
On November 2, 2010 at 02:17, Guy Palmer said...
To me, sWords' table illustrates why there is no obvious alternative to the Pronto. I would put "firm buttons" as an absolute must have, so that cuts out Ipad, Android, etc. And I would also put "available to DIYers" as an absolute must have, so that cuts out AMX, Crestron, RTI, etc. So, that effectively means that there will only be an alternative if someone develops a phone/tablet with hard buttions.

You are very right, even for us installers who have access to the "professional" products there is no real obvious option. I am looking seriously at AMX as I like the look of the panels and we should be able to use are current extenders.

Dupe...
Dupe...
Post 21 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 05:54
buzz
Super Member
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May 2003
3,973
Lack of hard keys is a killer for me and most of my customers.

Actually, I should amend that to "persistent" keys. That's the problem with an iController. One must first load an application before a button is available. Ignoring the load the application issue, one must code vol, mute and probably ch+(-) on most pages, tying up valuable screen real estate.

There is another side to this coin, however. As I observe the iGeneration, they welcome excuses to touch, swipe, and scroll. To this type of individual, constantly needing to select this that or the other is a plus.
OP | Post 22 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 07:42
sWORDs
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2006
373
I don't like to miss the firmkeys aswell. But the longer I look at the alternatives the more I'm convinced that I will probably go for the 7", 380 gram, Samsung Galaxy Tab, Android tablet. Or the 5" 220 gram Dell Streak. So no more hardbuttons. I'm just a little bit concerned about battery life and life span (scratches falling etc).

I still hope to find a better alternative. But I think it should be something that's freely available. I hate what AMX and Crestron do.

Last edited by sWORDs on November 2, 2010 08:01.
Post 23 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 09:02
randman
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2003
377
I also did some research last weekend upon learning of Pronto's unfortunate demise, and came to the same conclusions others have felt - that there is no DIY remote that is as powerful (e.g. IR, RF, RS-232, etc.) as the Pronto line. There are some very good remotes for non-DIY folks, but for DIY folks, not having access to the software is a deal breaker.

The latest Pronto remotes (e.g. TSU9400, TSU9600, etc) are powerful and competitive enough relative to other remotes that I can see myself using the Pronto line for some years to come until something better comes along.

I don't like the lack of hard buttons on the iOS (iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch) devices and on Android. Great for running macros, but for some things like channel surfing, using a DVR and fast forwarding, rewinding, the lack of hard buttons is not desirable. iPad is a bit of an overkill too. I'd rather use an iPhone or iPod Touch. They're smaller, and in the case of iPhone, something I'd always have with me (plus, I can employ my old iPhones for dedicated remote use). Apple has a great remote app for iOS that controls the Apple TV & iTunes. So, I can see the benefits of an iOS remote. But I would miss the hard buttons...

I'm not familiar with the Nuvo line, but from what I've seen of other remotes, there's no good alternative right NOW. So, as others have said, we have good Pronto remotes, good software, a good forum here, so why not continue to use the Pronto for the indefinite future until a clearly better DIY remote becomes avalable? In addition to a TSU 9400, I still use a TSU 7500, whose software hasn't been updated in years.
Post 24 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 09:07
the_zap_gun
Long Time Member
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Posts:
October 2005
118
A Nevo has occurred to me as a replacement to the Pronto.

I did own an SL briefly, but sold it and went back to the RU950 I was using at the time, due to several issues (that I would class as fundamental) in a universal touchscreen remote, mainly:

- The touchscreen could be quite inaccuarate (For example, you could press a button in the botton left-hand quadrant of the screen and a button in the top right-hand quadrant would show as "pressed". This occured on more than one unit, so I guess it wasn't a one-off manufacturing defect).

- Pressing the transparent part of a button image would select the button.

- The IR "runwaway" issue (I know the symptoms caused by this problem could be controlled by limiting the duration that an IR code was transmitted for, but that didn't resolve the underlying issue).

- I found macros to be quite slow compared the Pronto (I guess due to the inter-IR command delay being greater?)

Are these issues still apparent with the latest Nevo models? I really did like the ergonomics and editing software of the Nevo, so I would consider one as a replacement if the above issues have been addressed.
Mike
Post 25 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 09:20
Chris Horn
Founding Member
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January 2002
151
Hi guys,

haven't been around here for quite some time...

On November 2, 2010 at 02:17, Guy Palmer said...
I would put "firm buttons" as an absolute must have, so that cuts out Ipad, ...

Don't want to stirr anything up, just like to let you know that there will be a 'jacket' for the iPad from Crestron called iPanel that brings firm keys.

http://www.crestron.com/products/show_products.asp?jump=1&model=IPANEL

Those will probably not be available to other apps than Crestron's, though...
If you don't want to get better you stop being good.
Post 26 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 10:02
GCParris
Long Time Member
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June 2003
16
As well as IR and RS232 what about RF ?
Post 27 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 10:20
Guy Palmer
Active Member
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June 2008
648
On November 2, 2010 at 10:02, GCParris said...
As well as IR and RS232 what about RF ?

Isn't that adequately covered by TCP/UDP?
Post 28 made on Tuesday November 2, 2010 at 22:57
sydinstaller
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
740
On November 2, 2010 at 09:07, the_zap_gun said...
- The touchscreen could be quite inaccuarate (For example, you could press a button in the botton left-hand quadrant of the screen and a button in the top right-hand quadrant would show as "pressed". This occured on more than one unit, so I guess it wasn't a one-off manufacturing defect).

I have not seen this. Either way the S70 is a completely different remote. Nothing is shared from the SL.

- Pressing the transparent part of a button image would select the button.

This is expected. If the button behind the image is 40x40 but the icon is only 10x10 then the effective touch area would be 40x40. Just use a smaller transparent button.

- The IR "runwaway" issue (I know the symptoms caused by this problem could be controlled by limiting the duration that an IR code was transmitted for, but that didn't resolve the underlying issue).

This is no longer an issue.

- I found macros to be quite slow compared the Pronto (I guess due to the inter-IR command delay being greater?)

Hmmm, this could simply be a programming issue. Nevo have an automatic delay of 200ms (changeable in NSP3). If you put a delay in your macro between commands then you are doubling up your delays.

Are these issues still apparent with the latest Nevo models? I really did like the ergonomics and editing software of the Nevo, so I would consider one as a replacement if the above issues have been addressed.

Talk to your distributer, they may be able to loan you one to test.

I am happy to help with any other questions you may have on the Nevo range.

D.
Post 29 made on Wednesday November 3, 2010 at 04:11
the_zap_gun
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2005
118
On November 2, 2010 at 22:57, sydinstaller said...
I have not seen this. Either way the S70 is a completely different remote....

Thanks for the reply and offer of help.

It's good to know that the automatic delay between IR commands can now be adjusted; I did find the general slowness of IR a little bit annoying with the SL.

I must admit though, it does still surprise me that transparent areas of a button react to being pressed - this isn't the way with Prontos, the itouch/pad/phone or even PDAs which the SL was supposed to be based on. It's not a deal breaker though.
Mike
Post 30 made on Wednesday November 3, 2010 at 06:12
Jasonvp
Select Member
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July 2008
2,404
On November 3, 2010 at 04:11, the_zap_gun said...
I must admit though, it does still surprise me that transparent areas of a button react to being pressed - this isn't the way with Prontos, the itouch/pad/phone or even PDAs which the SL was supposed to be based on. It's not a deal breaker though.

I suppose this is a personal preference. Personally I prefer the transparent area to be pressable...I hate overlapping buttons.
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