Barry - Most have known about zip for a long time. I am not as technical as you and Lyndel but wasn't the bigger issue the schema of the XML file not being readily available or at least understood so that next level integration could actually do something with it?

Dave
RemoteQuest.com

In using are various Pronto remotes in our home this weekend (and thinking of Phillips closing this business), I continued to be impressed with what the Pronto Team has created. My Prontos (have TSU9400/9600/9800s), work seemlessly with all of our equipment (including RFX9400s/RFX9600s). I have two way RS232 and IP communication with several components as well as complete integration with our HAI home automation system and Zwave lighting. I can't think of another system which might allow this. Does any system allow prontoscript type of programming/integration? I used several system (e.g. RTI and URC) before moving to my current system. Have to thank the Pronto Team for allowing me to create a truly top notch system for our home. SJ

Yes but you still need a coordinated piece of hardware to recognize the command structure and do the work. In the iPad world their are several hardware pieces being employed offering Wi-Fi to IR, RS-232 even IP. But in most of these systems I have looked to deploy for clients, we are at step one for programming, they look like crude text editors and very little to any coordination with the GUI. So far I mean Bitwise and Command Fusion. While they seem to work ok the programming work seems to be...ah like programming work.

I am dilligently researching one to bring on for our clients but all that I have seen so far are very cryptic funky text editors. If you guys have seen a good GUI based model, please let me know!

I suspect someone will come up with a better one, more in tune to what we are used to working on like ProntoEdit, URC, Nevo, etc. I used to bitch about ProntoEdit but these "bit-twirling" systems make ProntoEdit look like the Taj Mahal.

I don't want to code. I want to build a great system for a client that I can understand and deploy.

Bitwise is probably the closest one but it is unfortunately a piece of junk compared to any of the GUI-based systems we are used to working with. Also I recently determined their management team is loaded with idiots.

Hi Remotequest.

If you don't want to code you can't offer good bi-directional remote's. My opinion..
Take Nevo, their good in drag and drop.

Command fusion is in my opinion the best programming enviroment i can image.
The way the system is build up is very very flexible. (did I say very flexible?)

Hopefully we can use the RFX9600 / 9400 in other control systems in the neir future to have the possibility to update our systems!

A little thought that came to me during the sleepless hours this weekend:

Imaging to have a Pronto Emulator, like the simulator, running on a PC/MAC in your house, that has a web interface. then you could uses your XCF's on a iDevice/android and what else controlling everything via the extenders.

The same idea comes to me month ago when my clients ask me about iPad as main controller in their house, but we have at least two problems wit that idea:

1.How to obtain it?
2.Will it be dependable?

How about a tablet running Windows and the Pronto Simulator?

The simulator can't communicate with extenders or accept incoming udp. It also can't output IR (and the tablets also have no IR). You could create something with a tcp controller and Jon's simulator hack, but what would the use of maintaining Pronto be? You could just as easy create the GUI on Android/iPad or Visual Studio, it's the javascripts and IR/RS232 commands that bother me the most.

Maybe we could create a table with features (hardbuttons, TCP, UDP, IR, RS232, resolution, graphics acceleration, CPU power, programing language, price, etc) and possible solutions (android tablet, iPad, RTI, Nevo, AMX, Crestron, etc)? Shall I create a topic for it, so anyone can give input?

edit: [Link: remotecentral.com]

I think you should.

Yep, I have started to look and the only viable alternative appears to be the AMX MVP5150 with a Netlinx controller to get TCP. All my Pronto jobs use 3rd party extenders from Global Cache and Netcom so this may give me a reasonable solution to move forward with. Price wise, not as bad as I thought!

Dupe...

Unfortunately, I was expecting this given the restricted access to the pro web site, and the availability of remotes decreasing (B&H, and others, I'm sure, don't sell at least TSU-9600s anymore).

The pronto product was fantastic, but much as with the Compaq brand of computers many years ago, the high cost and limited availability, along with the "pro" line that only "pros" could program, IMHO, it was only a matter of time before the Prontos were discontinued.

For those not familiar with what happened to Compaq, they sold PC compatibles for quite some time; however, they came with a very premium price - sometimes in excess of $1,000 US over similar models available from other sources. Eventually, Compaq could not compete with the lower priced alternatives and had to bring their pricing in line with the cheaper alternatives. It so hurt Compaq that HP eventually bought them out. HP continues to sell the Compaq line, but that line is reasonably priced.

IMHO, that is the problem with taking a "we are so great and we know it that we can and will, to the ends of time, charge an astronomical price for our product" attitude.

I cannot help but think that Philips and Pronto did this to themselves. If a buyer is found, I hope they a) keep similar devices on the market b) make them more user friendly c) reduce the price to the point where it is attractive to those who are not on the upper end of the income scale.

I am saddened by this, and I do hope that Philips will find a buyer, and if a buyer is found, that buyer will open their arms to the DIY people.

Dave, any one who has a basic knowledge about programming and can read English can decipher XML to the degree necessary to understand the makeup of an xcf. The Pronto team never told me, nor I suspect anyone else, the makeup of an xcf file, and I built a full parser for an xcf.

The only reason I would like to see them sell the product line is to provide employment for the Pronto team. I would really like them to put together all the IP and put it into the Public domain so the Pronto can become an Open source software system. If that happened I bet there are some Asian manufacturers that might pick up the hardware or make a compatible piece of hardware (an iPad with buttons). People on this forum would handle the code base. Think XBMC.

There is a startup called iRule whose roadmap is a sophisticated GUI based editor (~$50) that is at this moment in time like PEP-0.1. It builds an app for the iPad that you can then load into the iPad. Some interesting facts.

iRule runs in the Google cloud, nothing on your machine.
Backups are done in the cloud by the cloud
Possible issue is a major Google failure
No software distribution issues
Privacy - well that is a trust issue as it always is
Any machine/OS that runs a decent browser works

iPad app is approved by apple. You buy the iRule app at the iTunes store, cost $0.0. No Jail-breaking required. iRule builds the equivalent of an xcf and downloads it to the iPad/iRule app when you sync your iPad to iRule. One button touch.

They are looking at writing an xcf converter for at least the graphics portion. Would give a Pronto owner a 50% leg up on a conversion, maybe more.

The iPad handles only IP/Wifi and iRule requires the use of gateways for such things as IR and serial communications. Sound familiar?. IP at this time is one way only, and I think the same is true of serial communications.

They, iRule, have an extensive IR library. They have a moderate IP and serial Comm Library. They support the Global Cache family as their "Official" Gateway. This includes the iTach which is very nice.

Their support staff is getting very high marks on the forums.

One of the principals of the company is always active on the forum answering questions, providing support and accepting ideas for implementation.

I am working with them in a consulting role (They know I will not discuiss any Pronto information that is not in the public domain). I believe they may also be talking to Lyndel.

I am starting to convert my Theater system to the iPad using iRule just to see what it takes and be able to offer good advice. I am doing it manually, no translation of the xcf which they agree with me is fairly reasonable, not simple, not difficult, but reasonable.

I like the company since they are dedicated to the concept of the iPad as a home controller.

I am also looking at the native iPad with Cocoa framework to directly implement code on the iPad but that is a whole other endeavor for next years timeframe.

Right now I have a 9800 that completely controls my Home theater just the way I want, and 9600/9400 in all rooms of the house for TV, and Home automation control.

The IPad is a mountain that is there and I do like to climb.

Was planning on looking into OpenRemote - similar concept but not limited Apple devices.

My preference would be web interfaces so any device with a web browser can be used.

www.openremote.org/display/HOME/OpenRemote

Thanks for the link!!

This is an interesting concept considering that it runs on Android and you can get 7" tablet models for approximately $250 US or less. However, being a programmer by trade, my experience with support for open software has not been great, but, given the time, a programmer can debug open source software if necessary.

For me and an android tablet, the lack of soft keys would not be an issue assuming that you could simulate soft keys, or hard keys, with a portion of the UI that remains fixed from device to device or activity to activity. (The hard keys were one issue that I had with the Pronto as it was my opinion that channel + - keys were relatively useless.)

I hate to beat a dead horse, but concepts like this IMHO, assuming that they can achieve the relative quality level of the Prontos (I also gather that the Pronto Pros had issues with WiFi and other issues) would eventually drive the "elite" like Pronto out of the market.

Now give me an Android Tablet with an OLED display (sooner or later they will come), and I will be a very happy camper.