I don't appreciate the "lol", and no it won't instantly stop working but it will soon enough.

Tell me what you would do if you don't have access to the latest software and windows comes out with a new OS that is incompatible with the current software we use? Just like it did when Vista came out and then again when Windows 7 came out.

After that happens and you switch one piece of equipment in your system you will have to hire someone to reprogram your whole system. Not what I am interested in. If it was I would go control4 or crestron prestige as both offer a more complete one stop shop with a much wider install base, and at least where I am located is supported everywhere.

There are other options, I chose pronto because I liked the product and the fact that the software was supported and accessible to me. If it wasn't I would not have bought it. I was screwed with the iPronto, should have learned then but gave them another chance. If it does end up we are locked out, I would get rid of my equipment, no longer endorse there products to friends or online and buy something new simply based on the principle of the way the company has treated customers over the years.

This is my opinion based on the amount of money I have invested into pronto products over the years, so the "laughing out loud" at my stance on the matter is simply ignorant and unappreciated.

Also considering Microsoft is already talking about there next windows and how it is a risky product they have in development because it will "be leaps and bounds different" articles words, not mine....

I think my concerns are very valid.

Long term, if the hobbyist/DIY community is locked out of the Philips site, the hobbyist/DIY community will shrink, and there will be less people posting useful information in the forums and there will be less uploads of remote codes, graphics, etc. As a result, long term, the "installer/professional" community would be negatively affected by locking out the hobbyist/DIY community.

You state that you are never using Pronto again and that you are now putting all of your equipment up for sale.. My question was, what else is out there that will do what you want and that Pronto does? As a DIY solution, Nothing.. so I am wondering where your logic is in your initial statement. You talk about Control4 and Crestron in your last post but they do not allow end users to have the software either so they are not an option. You can also add URC and AMX to the list so I guess I don't see where your argument is going. Software changes all the time. I can run all of the legacy software that I have on Windows 7 and have not had any of the "supposed" issues that have been claimed to be out there.

Thanks for your continued help Barry / Lyndel. As someone in the software industry I like having the latest / greatest so hopefully Philips works something out.

-Aaron

Hello All, may I ask that you please relax take a "chill" pill.

IMO, the "LOL" comment was made, I'm pretty sure, hypothetically and I think one might have overreacted.

The person @ Philips best qualified to make a decision about this returns to the office on Monday. Not sure what is going to happen but rest assured that Philips is aware of this thread and aware of the concerns. I have not spoken vocally about much going on here as Barry has been the "mouthpiece" of sorts. However, I, too, have been in contact with Belgium discussing options.

Also, If I may, some of the comments on this thread have really shown members "true colors". IMO, Some good, but more bad. I really thought this community was better than this.

Lyndel

Ok here is a thought..

Most of the DIY'ers ( but not all ) have purchased Pronto’s from non dealers/grey imports so you can get a cheaper product.

The reason you buy from a dealer is to get support and backup, so if you buy from a non authorised channel would you pay Philips for the upgrade like you would with other software, windows Mac OS , AVG etc, at the end of the day if no one pays then no more development, dealers have to pay for advertising, staff to give support and training, warranty issues and, at the end of the day they have to make a profit to stay in business.

Most scripts these days have a small cost to them and no one seems to complain about this. :)

When I bought my Pronto, I thought it was just a another remote control, hi-spec, but still just another remote. It was just like buying any other product from my point of view. I had no idea of authorized dealers/distributors etc.

Given the amount of members here, there must be a great many who obtained their Pronto by unauthorized methods. I wonder how many were aware of the situation, before they bought a Pronto. Not many, I would guess.


I agree with the 'Chill-Out'.

If Pronto do release a statement on Monday then it must contain some kind of good news. If it was all bad news, why would they waste their time releasing. A bad news statement would just provoke yet more outrage.

Monday is not far away.

I've contacted my distributer yesterday and expect to get a reply within a week or so, but I do have some hope of getting the code - afterall it's the same distributer who granted my access the first time.
I'm not really angry about the situation, just disappointed. I can see why Philips would do something like this - the problem most in here have is that they are changing the rules. Right now my pronto is working fine, it would be sad to miss out on new features, but it'll still be working. I believe the market in my country is very small and there are even fewer hobbyists, so not much support. There are a couple of Level 3 certified installers and I've bought several pieces of other equipment from 2 of them over the years and they both seem to be very understanding when it comes to the Pronto. The don't spend very much of their time here on RC, since remotes are a very small part of their businesses, so I give them a heads-up when I see something new and we exchange ideas about scripts sometimes. I don't think I'd have a problem getting any of them to download new firmware or if I bought another panel, I think they'd be willing to download my own configuration if that's what it comes to

I really hope that is what Philips decides. All of the previous comments fall a bit short in my view. Some seem to imply that hobbyists should get a portion of what the professionals have access to. If the professionals can make use of it, then I may be able to as well. I probably paid more for my unit than the professionals do. I shouldn't be crippled in my ability to program it or add features.

Come on Philips, Barry seems to be on to something here...

Agree, Lyndel. From a dealer perspective, Philips has probably been the worst offender out of URC, RTI and Universal Electronics Nevo. For many years Philips has turned a blind eye to eBay sales and other low-cost resellers at below dealer cost and all of that. I have written umpteen letters to them describing the current environment but they have done little to try and make any changes. In fact for awhile in 2007 Philips sold all of the refurb gear on eBay through a liquidator and completely desimated the Pronto market for at least 1 year.

The trend I see is when the economy is in the dumps, manufacturers and distributors all turn to any sale possible without regard for the dealer channel that likely helped them get into the market in a serious way.

Dealers spend a lot of money on training, demo units, advertising and other things to fully support a manufacturer. However, the nature of the beast is that manufacturer's often forget who brung them to the party.

Unfortunately it is very cyclical. For the first few years everyone is happy. Then when business gets slow the manufacturer decides to let their distribution get a little sloppy. Pretty soon all of the ebay slackers and other internet box movers have found product at WAY below dealer pricing being sold sideways by unethical distributors and then the loyal dealer scratches his head and wonders why he ever supported that manufacturer to begin with. If the economy gets a little better the manufacturer fires a bunch of sleezy distributors trying to make things right and the damn cycle starts all over again.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what has happened with Philips over the past 6 years or so.

Dave
RemoteQuest.com

Thank you for pointing this out. You hit the nail on its head. This is exactly what worries me most, and the very reason for my outrage! As for the LOL, I believe that it was not meant to denigrate you, but rather as "gallows humor" - which may be our only option at this stage...


Dave, as a customer (rather than a pro), I respectfully disagree. What some call "unethical", others may call "free market economy". I cannot believe that eBay sellers offer anything below their own cost...

Oh please...The product is not generally supposed to be available in a "free market economy". It was originally sold by specialty distributors for the custom installer marketplace. These products were not supposed to be available direct to the consumer. That is what happened and screwed many of the dealers who helped them build their remote business. What caused their many problems was unethical distributors (which Philips approved and created) sold product sold "sideways" (or grey market) in great quanity to anyone who had enough money to buy a lot of them (because these distributors had deals based on volume) and sold them well below dealer pricing. Then these resellers, who add nothing to the sale, blow them out at $50 over cost which is still below dealer cost. So the "pro" gets the short end of the stick even though we helped them a lot to grow their business.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with selling to an end user at a discount. I have done that a lot in my business. In fact I was one of the leading dealers to try and reach the DIY market (when most other custom installers did not want anything to do with that type of customer) and built a sizable market serving this segment. But at that time I did not have to compete with any ebay sellers who simply moved boxes and added no value.

I am still pissed that I and many others helped Philips build a legitmate channel here and then they got crazy and screwed us by looking the other way on purpose) and let a lot of product get sold at below dealer cost on eabay and other flea-bag internet merchants.

Of course when Philips wants to try and make up with their loyal pros, they go out and de-authorize a dozen of their "most shady" distributors who might have been responsible for selling a lot of product to the grey market, which Philips did this past week.

So, hopefully you can understand the long crooked road with being a custom installer for Philips remote products.

Thanks Barry ;D

I agree with Mark 100%