Hi,
I am looking to integrate my Daikin AC into my Pronto 9800.
I have been told that the only way to fully integrate the Daikin AC into the pronto is by using the CoolMaster 1000D built by Xdimax.
Does anyone knows if the pronto "drivers" already exist for this interface ?

Thanks

You are entering murky waters!

The CoolMaster is an RS232 bridge, which converts CoolMaster RS232 commands into Daikin RS232 commands. As such:

1. It will only work if your Daikin AC is of a type that accepts RS232 commands (i.e. is a VRV system).

2. Its supposed benefit is that CoolMaster RS232 commands are easier to construct than Daikin RS232 commands. Even if this is the case, it still requires you to construct the CoolMaster RS232 commands on your Pronto. It also requires a device (e.g. RFX9600) which converts Pronto output into RS232.

I don't know the protocol for the CoolMaster RS232 commands and so I don't know how it gets round the problem that, taking all the parameters of a Daikin (temperature, mode, timers, etc, etc) together, there are around 30 billion(!) possible commands. To get round this problem, either a) the Daikin RS232 commands would have to send each parameter separately or b) the CoolMaster would have to take a series of commands for each parameter and construct the composite Daikin command from them or c) you would have to restrict yourself to only using a subset of the possible combinations. I can't see anything on the CoolMaster site which discusses this issue.

An alternative approach is simply to communicate with the Daikin air conditioners via IR and I am currently helping Philips to develop such a module for the Pronto 9300. It gets round the 30 billion possible command problem by restricting itself to the top 700 combinations.

I've been told that by using only the IR i won't be able to completely control the A/C and it won't be a two way communication. That's why i was thinking about the CoolMaster.
But it seems a bit too complicated...
Anyway thank you for the time you took to write this full and precise answer.

Yes, you can't get COMPLETE control using IR because there are 30 billion possible codes. But you can get EFFECTIVE control using IR by implementing those codes which, in practice, you will want to use. I control my Daikin using IR with 200 codes and it works fine for me. The solution that I am helping Philips with will expand this to 700 codes.


Yes, RS232 is the only way to get 2-way communications. But not all RS232 implementations are 2-way and the CoolMaster site does not seem to mention this as a feature. Also, in practice, 2-way is not needed as the Pronto knows the state of the AC from the commands that it has sent.


I agree that it is all very complicated. From a practical perspective, it probably needs you to find someone who has previously implemented a Pronto/CoolMaster solution. Have you emailed CoolMaster's technical support to see if they know of anyone?

So with control over the IR i will be able to see the temperature set on the AC but it will only be because the first time it set it up at a number and after that the Pronto will know that because i increased by one it will be number +1 right ?

Unless there is a manual control panel and someone touches it . . .

On my AC, all the IR codes include temperature levels (e.g. 20degC) rather than temperature increments (e.g. +1degC). Although I have a temperature increment button on the original remote control, what it is in fact doing is incrementing the temperature last set ON THE REMOTE and then sending that incremented temperature to the AC UNIT. Unlike thermostats, my AC unit has no concept of "a temperature it is set to" - rather, it simply responds to IR codes sent, each of which contains a complete set of parameters.

Similarly, my AC remote also has an 'on' button but there is no "ON" IR code that it can send. Rather, the remote itself remembers what temperature, mode, swing etc parameters it was last set to and, when the 'on' button is pressed, it sends a complete code including all these parameters.

Maybe AC units work differently where you (or Barry) live.

Well i did not think of that.
So you are saying that for example there are discrete codes for the temperature ?
That would be perfect.
thanks

Not exactly. What I am saying is that all codes on my AC are discretes and that there are around 30 billion of them. So, for any given temperature, there are around 2 billion different discrete codes, depending on what the other parameters are set to. If one ignores on/off timers, the number reduces to around 1,000. The remote control does not send a code saying simply "set the temperature to X". Rather, it sends a complete code along the lines of "set the temperature to X, the mode to heat, the fan to max, the swing to off, etc". It does so even if the AC unit is already set to mode=heat, fan=max, etc. In other words, all the current settings are maintained on THE REMOTE rather than on THE AC UNIT, and the remote then constructs a complete IR code from them when sending a signal. This is totally different from (for example) televisions where the current settings are maintained on THE TELEVISION rather than on THE REMOTE.

Oh ok I see.
So what is the best way to program this ?
Jeremy

Guy,

What you are saying is that a message to the AC system is structured with fields representimng each of the component subsystems (temp, fan, timers etc). Almost all IR is structured this way, having only two fields one for the Device (manufacturers model) and one for the Key (function to perform).

In NEC protocol there are two two fields of 16 bits each for 32 bits, but I would not say that there are 2^32 code combinations.

It is possible to write code on the Pronto using Prontoscript that will build up an IR pattern concatenating each fields value to make up the full message. Unfortunately there is no way that the Pronto can send that using only Philips equipment.

However if you were using a Global Cache TCPIP to IR device, the smallest one being about $150, you could send the developed IR Pattern string to it over TCPIP and it would put out the necessary IR.

The coding requires both knowledge of IR in general, the structure of the protocol used by the AC's, and a decent working knowledge of Prontoscript.

First, you have to crack the coding structure. I did this by learning some example codes from the original remote, comparing them and gradually working out the structure (obviously, you can only do this if you have a way of learning codes from the original remote). For example, keep all the parameters constant apart from the mode, see how the code changes and then you know which bits of it relate to the mode. The difficult part is then working out how checksumming is done (part of the code near the end which is calculated from the rest of the code and used to validate it).

Second, you have to write a spreadsheet or equivalent which can generate the code for any given input set of parameters.

Finally, you have to decide which subset of codes that you want to use, generate them in the spreadsheet and then copy/paste them into your Pronto database.

All the above is non-trivial. I reckon it took me about 100 hours' effort but, hey, its a hobby :)

The alternative is to find someone who has already done this for you. And that someone might be me! Try the two codes below and tell me if either of them work. If so, I can send you the subset that I use.

DAIKIN AC1: 30 heat auto swing
0000 007C 00A4 0000 00A8 0048 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 03DA 00A8 0048 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C 003C 000C 0018 000C AF41

DAIKIN AC2: 30 heat auto swing
0000 006F 00DC 0000 0081 0040 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0450 0081 0040 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 C3C8


My 30 billion estimate is the actual number of descrete codes: 5 modes * 13 temperatures * 7 fans * 1440 ontimers * 1440 offtimers * 2 swing on/off * 2 powermode on/off * 2 silentmode on/off * 2 homeleave on/off * 2 movementsensor on/off = 30,191,616,000.


Interesting, as ever. I knew that I couldn't do it using the standard Philips hardware but not that it would be possible using other hardware.

Well that seems really interesting and the best solution. I guess i will forget the coolmaster and try it this way.
I won't be able to try before 2 or 3 month as the house is still under construction but that seems that the way to go.
If i will continue getting as much information as possible until that but I got in touch with the CoolMaster sales/support guy and he told me that most of the company in the country where i live are familiar with it...
www.xdimax.com/cool/prm.pdf
Page 7 isn't it what the Pronto is supppose to send to the Coolmaster ?

In RS232: looks like it.

In IR: no. As far as I understand it, IR codes and RS232 codes are completely unrelated.

From what I can make out from the manual (which is written in very poor English), the Pronto sends RS232 commands relating to individual parameters to the Coolmaster. Then either a) the Daikin VRV interface accepts and processes these individual commands or b) the Coolmaster combines them with previously sent commands to construct a relevant code for the Daikin containing all the required parameters. Putting this another way, either a) the Daikin VRV interfaces acts like a television or b) the Coolmaster is acting like a Daikin remote control.

Dear Guy, is there a possibility that you can send me the Daikin AC2 subset of ir codes. I have tried the one you posted and it worked for me. I need them to control the air conditioning in an accessible way.

Thanks in advance.