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Topic:
Problems learning IR codes
This thread has 40 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 41.
Post 31 made on Friday May 1, 2020 at 13:16
Barf
Long Time Member
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Since you already have the signals, you want to "import" them into your control system, not "learn" them. "Learning" is simply a different use case.

Instead open a thread on how to import signals in your control system, if you cannot find information from the manufacturer.
Post 32 made on Tuesday May 12, 2020 at 14:44
ckleiman2
Junior Member
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On May 1, 2020 at 13:16, Barf said...
Since you already have the signals, you want to "import" them into your control system, not "learn" them. "Learning" is simply a different use case.

So the mfr is just saying IR commands cannot be "imported"....must be learned, but, if the learner can't learn XMP protocol, what do do, right?

The IR file(s) have a .sir extension. I've tried opening them with DevPHP and a couple other applications to see if I could edit them with the working pronto hex. Unfortunately, no luck opening.

I'd be happy to send you a file. Would you be willing to give it a try?
Post 33 made on Thursday May 14, 2020 at 12:50
Barf
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I'd be happy to send you a file. Would you be willing to give it a try?

What do you expect me to do? Reverse engineer the file format, and provide tools for generating those files? Possibly as an export format in IrScrutinizer?

Of course you can upload a file. Better yet, official file format specifications.
Post 34 made on Thursday May 14, 2020 at 17:40
ckleiman2
Junior Member
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On May 14, 2020 at 12:50, Barf said...
What do you expect me to do? Reverse engineer the file format, and provide tools for generating those files? Possibly as an export format in IrScrutinizer?

Of course you can upload a file. Better yet, official file format specifications.

There doesn't seem to be a way to upload files in this forum. Also, I don't have any official file format specifications.

I think it would be really cool to have an export format in IrScrutinizer.
Post 35 made on Friday May 15, 2020 at 19:09
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
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Before this conversation gets out of hand, a few observations about what's been stated so far and what has not...

XMP is not my strongest when it comes to IR codes and protocols. The likes of Barf and John Fine and others are definitely the most knowledgeable.

@cklieman2
1. I just reviewed this entire thread starting with your first post. Your posts have been somewhat ambiguous and "roaming" from the start without a crisp problem statement. I think your intent to jump onto this thread was because you were trying to use MakeHex and IR panels.

You never mention definitively that you are trying to learn codes for a Dreambox or any other type of equipment, just that you can't learn codes.

Is the issue due to the fact that the "Vitty" equipment will not learn the XFinity XMP codes? Because I see that you were able to learn codes into the TSU 3000 but got stuck there?

I think we've managed to identify that the issue is with XMP codes. You then bring in a manufacturer (mfr - Which one?) and call out a very ambiguous file extension (.sir). Respectfully, I think we all want to move this forward but you have not given us any details as to the source of that file, where you got it, or even the absolute type of equipment for which this is targeting. I did a quick google for that file extension and did not find any good hits. May I suggest that if you were to start a new thread with a specific and clear problem statement of what you are attempting to do and if there is relevant information in this thread, either link back to this one?

2. There is a way to upload files to this site. It is the Files Section. However, I think you are asking Barf if you might be able to send him a file.

3. I'm sure if you were to send email to Barf at the email address on his profile, he might likely get it. However, before blindly submitting emails, consider using RC Mail to start an off-forum discussion.

4. Supporting an open project such as IRScrutinizer requires quite a bit of time and based on the amount of information on the site, I think we all agree that there is a ton of work behind the project. I did the same with for a project named SuperNudelist for many years. Every body appreciates being thrown a "bone" every now and then. However from here, I see that Barf does not solicit nor accept donations.
[Link: harctoolbox.org]

If you'd like him to look at something, please consider the points I made above about additional information and note that things you may consider insignificant are significant pieces of information that we might need to help you farther along.

@Barf

1. Ckleiman2 is just trying to solve a problem and as he joined the site in April 2020 and has 18 posts, many of which are likely in this thread. I suspect, he is likely very new to all this. If you have time to assist and if you were to accept donations via Paypal or some other means, that might be beneficial. Heck, as IRScrutinizer has been staple to me for solving some of my own problems, a little $$$ might show up from me if a means to donate were available.

2. I read your last post and also knowing that English is not your first language, I must admit the the translation that resulted (not sure which tool you used) came across as somewhat harsh.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 36 made on Friday May 15, 2020 at 20:18
ckleiman2
Junior Member
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Lyndel, appreciate your thoughtful response.

The control system I'm reselling can only learn IR codes. Cannot import them. The learner is very reliable, however, as we know, discrete codes aren't found on most handheld remotes...........so...........I have a couple learners that can accept Pronto hex i.e. Vity and the TSU3000 and when necessary have been cut pasting into those learners and then verifying onto my control system learner and.........this process normally works fine.

That is until Xfinity X1 STB's came along.

As I've learned through perusing past posts Xfinity uses an IR protocol called XMP. This protocol is nearly impossible for most IR learners to learn. Even when I cut paste the Pronto hex into my Vity and TSU3000 and try verifying onto my learner...........nada every time....IR learning failed error message.

At this point I'm done wasting any more time on this.

I will say, though, that it has been a learning experience.
Post 37 made on Saturday May 16, 2020 at 12:50
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
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Sorry for the long post above. I felt as though this thread was starting to escalate and as I've been here a long time, been there, done that. I've also on occasion misread a message a time or to and taken the intent the wrong way.

Because of the redesign of the Pro Line and how they learn, those remotes are likely capable of learning and reproducing a signal but the resulting data format will start with FFFF instead of 0000 like you are needing.

One final note. Barf, Please, please, please consider that 'donation' button. ;-)
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 38 made on Saturday May 16, 2020 at 14:11
ckleiman2
Junior Member
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One final note. Barf, Please, please, please consider that 'donation' button. ;-)

Agreed. If Barf could add .SIR file export into IrScrutinizer it would mean I could cut paste the Pronto Hex and export as .SIR and it should work, right?

That's worth a donation, for sure.

I think I might even be able to get file type specifications too.

Last edited by ckleiman2 on May 16, 2020 14:18.
Post 39 made on Sunday May 17, 2020 at 00:40
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
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12,992
Going back to Barf's point. Nobody likes to have to reverse-engineer a protocol formation. What format is .SIR? Is the file type specification documented somewhere? Is it a popular file format? How many other types of equipment might use that format? The question here would be the cost-benefit analysis.

Only if you can find the documentation then would I reach out privately to Barf.

Lyndel
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 40 made on Sunday May 17, 2020 at 15:27
Barf
Long Time Member
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350
Donations etc:
I have had the standpoint that if I am getting paid, then it is "normal" contractor hourly rate. I am open to sponsoring in the sense that I am getting paid for a certain well-defined task. I have not been very keen on what Lyndel pretty accurately calls "bones".

However, I may reconsider...

Support of foreign formats:
Let me explain a bit on the present formats: First there was the "Pronto Classic". There is an underrated program/library called Tonto, by Stewart Allen. This contains a complete API for both reading, creating, and writing of .ccf files. Thus, IrScrutinizer supports import and export of Pronto Classic files, to my knowledge essentially perfectly. So that was easy, again thanx to Stewart Allen.

Then the Pronto Professional, .xcf files: These are nothing but a zip archive, consisting of a number of image files, and one XML file. This XML file is quite easy to make sense of, and read information from, IR signals are in general stored as Pronto Hex, with some signals being encrypted. I have not tried to break this encryption, main reason is that I am not aware of any major collection of such files. (Also, IIRC, ProntoEdit, freely available here, is supposed to be able to read it and transform it to ordinary Pronto Hex.) For writing, this is a bit more problematic, since I have no official documentation, there may be some reason why just constructing an XML Schema/DTD and and creating valid XML instances wrt that Schema/DTD. So IrScrutinizer supports only import, not export of xcf files. Simply not worth it to try to get export fo work. Another problem is that there is (at least) two different versions around (given as the attribute "Version" in the root element", see file XcfImporter, lines 154ff).
But I think that the importer is at least almost complete.

The ProntoNG format, .pcf, is different. It is also a ZIP file with bitmaps + XML, but (IIRC) also the XML file is encrypted.

The IrTrans format is officially documented on IrTrans' website, but the documentation has many deficiencies. So the IrTrans importer/exporter is a mix between official docu and guesswork.

The CML format is binary and fairly complicated; fortunately John Fine once wrote a program for reading such files, used for the importer.

The export format irplus, for the Android app with the same name, was written with support from the app's author, so it should be pretty reliable. It is straightforward XML anyhow.

The export format AnyMote, for the Android app with the same name, is slighty differerent. To my knowledge, no documentation of the format exists, and I have not been in contact with the authors. Just reverse engineering... But it is a rather simple XML file, so the exporter works, at least I am not aware of any case when it does not.

So that should give you an idea of what's involved.

So why not just upload the sample file, for example to the file area, as PM or mail. And it can never hurt to mail the program authors and ask for documentation... Also, please address

What format is .SIR? Is the file type specification documented somewhere? Is it a popular file format? How many other types of equipment might use that format? The question here would be the cost-benefit analysis.

Note that, with sufficient effort, I may be able to cook up a Harmony exporter [Link: github.com] It would potentially have many users. However, not many seem to care...
Post 41 made on Wednesday May 20, 2020 at 00:40
ckleiman2
Junior Member
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I'm sorry but it looks like I need to put this on the back burner for now. As soon as things change I'll get back in touch.
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