They are completely unrelated remotes (the RC9800i vs TSU9600, or SRU9600 vs TSU9600).

This thread is for the TSU9600. I'll edit the name so that we don't get confused.

Any new news?

As you may or may not know, URC just changed its policy re the MX-3000. It is now an installer-only product. Folks who already have them will not be able to get software/firmware upgrades from other than an authorized installer/dealer. Take a look at the thread [Link: remotecentral.com]. This may turn out to be deja vu for Pronto adherents. As you might guess, installers are delighted, hobbyists are p---ed.

Has it occurred to anyone besides me that with UEI, URC, RTI and maybe Philips all going with an installer-only policy, the market might be ripe for a new entrant that thinks hobbyists might actually have a bit of gray matter?

Well, to be fair, UEI and RTI are true custom installer-only products in the sense that it is almost impossible for the hobbiest to get ahold of one or update anything should they get one; with URC you just have to buy from an authorized dealer.

We'll have to see if Philips plans on doing anything special with the Professional.

Daniel,

The only people really doing a whoile lot with UEI are end users. I know from looking at the forum that lots of end users are getting no help from dealers. And several months ago dealers were getting no help from UEI.

Then LAKERFAN...

That's true, but due to distribution the numbers are far less than they could have been.

But that's something that I think some manufacturers are starting to forget about: custom installers need the work done by prosumers. Prosumers have a lot more time to devote to troubleshooting, finding workaround, pushing the limits, uploading configurations, developing new layouts, and are generally open to sharing for free something they may have spent hundreds of hours working on.

If your keep your prosumers happy, your custom installers will be even happier.

its a toss up, loose the "prosumers" and yes some ci's will loose making a profit off of other peoples work, but we will also loose the end users with no brain matter that take up our and manufactures time and money asking stupid questions. the high end touchscreen remotes are for professionals to design and program and that is the way it should be.

Except that those would not be prosumers.

Very few CIs care about prosumers or the contributions that Daniel enumerated. Mfgrs like them because they do a lot of the work that they would otherwise have to pay for, but jonamatt's attitude is typical of most of the CIs I've met as well as many of those that post on the CI forum.

You could also ask for an end user's qualifications before selling him/her a remote! (just kidding).

I understanding where CI's are coming from, but I don't see why a product should be kept from me that I'm perfectly able to program.

In the UK we have a well established (admittedly small) chain of hifi shops whose sales pitch is the attention/service/warranty/support they give to consumers and don't offer internet sales (i.e. they know they can't compete on price with the internet). So if you want cheap - internet; if you want help/advice/service, etc.. you buy from them.

Why shouldn't end users be able to have the choice to buy from a CI (if they want the service/programming) or just buy the product.

Zap, this isn't a should/shouldn't issue. Dealers/Installers cannot compete with Internet sales on price. Their perception - which is probably true - is that they are losing business to discounters. They are demanding that manufacturers give them protection. The manufacturers are between a rock and a hard spot. On the one hand, they would like to maximize sales volume, on the other, they worry about retaining volume sales dealers. URC allowed its MX-3000, which it billed as an installer product, to be sold everywhere. As a result many of its dealers dropped the product and transferred loyalty to another company (e.g. RTI) that provided tighter protection. Now URC has made the product a true dealer-only product in the hope that it will regain the customers it lost.

Unfortunately, makers of programmable remotes don't know much about channel marketing. Most companies who make technology-based products have learned how to structure their product mix, customer support, nomenclature, pricing and distribution such that they can sell into different markets without angering one channel or another.

I think that the problem is exacerbated in the remote market by a perception that the prosumer market isn't big enough to worry about. That may be true.

Here in the UK, there doesn't appear to be much difference between authorised dealer price for Prontos/Nevos and volume disocounters anyway - maybe to do with that these things are niche market.

I wouldn't begrudge having to buy a remote from an authorised dealer at full price. The only issue I would have is the Lakerfan attitude - end user? its dealer only, you shouldn't have the software in the first place (but to be fair, I've never encountered this attitude myself from UEI).

I have not heard this from anybody yet, but when the price becomes so low it devalues the product. Everybody doing this has to make some money somewhere, this is still a capitalistic society and marketplace. The manufacturors have to contend with this as well.

I am one who made the switch to RTI, in oreder to service my customers I have to make money. Believe me, we are not getting rich doing this.

One does not find the kind of heavy discountiung in the UK (or in Europe for that matter) that you find in the US. The US has stronger laws against price-fixing, more efficient distribution, more competition, etc., etc. If you search this forum, you'll find hundreds of posts from Europe and the UK from people seeking to buy Prontos at US prices. I used to live in the UK. Hard goods typically cost twice as much as in the US. Deep discounting is very rare. VAT. Smaller stores with smaller stock. Higher rents/overheads. Unconscionably high exchange rate between sterling and dollar. Its even worse in Japan.