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Total Remote / PDAWin
This thread has 25 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Wednesday April 21, 2004 at 06:20
stricko
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Having tried the Total Remote demo, I'm now waiting for my licensed copy and IR thingy to arrive. I'm playing with my CCF to see if I need any changes,a nd to add a couple of functions I've been thinking about for a while.

One thing has struck me that I like about PDAWin that I can't find on Total Remote; the touch screen panel up and down arrows.

I realise that these are not standard Pronto, and that therefore it would be unrealistic to expect a.n.other program that accepts CCF files to have them in the same way, but I'll be sad to see them go when I switch to Total Remote.

On the pronto itself panel up/down is enabled on the hard keys below the screen, but unfortunately I've already reserved these for channel and volume up/down across the whole CCF.

Of course if you could edeit the system area you could add them yourself (roll on NetRemote). I'll probably end up building the jumps into the panels themselves. Ho hum
Post 2 made on Wednesday April 21, 2004 at 07:29
sandman69
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134
Actually on a pronto the panel up/down buttons are on the screen and not on the hard buttons.
Post 3 made on Wednesday April 21, 2004 at 07:42
npaisnel
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Stricko

You should not have to wait too long hopefully, as Don Stratton is working on this. I have suggested to Don that to keep extra screen buttons to a minimum and still retain this functionality to use the buttons that already exist in the TR system area at the top of the screen.

What I suggested is that the tabs across the top labelled Home, Device and Macros, keep the same function with the down pointing arrow, (moving between devices)but the left/right arrows either side of the text line take the function of moving between panels. This would then be the same as in PDAwin or in a un modified Pronto ccf with the two outermost hard buttons navigating the panels

If the system area at the top could also be changed to mimic the Pronto Pro that would be even better, but that would require finding a space for the panel buttons again.


Sandman..

I have only used a Pronto Pro, so a straight b/w Pronto may be different, but On a PPro the two outer buttons along the bottom of the screen were enabled by default to move between panels of any device. They only lost this ability if you assigned them to other functions/commands in the property section of the device or system properties on the Home section

so on a Pronto Pro the panel navigation IS via hard buttons, unless you specify otherwise in the ccf

Neil




This message was edited by npaisnel on 04/21/04 07:58.
OP | Post 4 made on Wednesday April 21, 2004 at 11:08
stricko
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Thanks for the quick responses guys.

Sorry for the lack of clarity on the earlier post, I had only checked the panel +/- in the Pronto Pro documentation, not the original Pronto. So I guess I was half right.

Another slight query, I've got the same CCF loaded into PDAWin and Total Remote. As I said in the earlier post, I'm using the hard buttons for volume and Channel+/-. In total remote, the hard buttons are retaining their original function and jumping to calender, home etc. In PDAwin, they are not. Is there a difference in how the two apps handle the key assignment.

For information, I'm testing on a LOOX. I do recall an earlier discussion about hard key assignment on dell PDAs. Might this be a similar issue?
Post 5 made on Wednesday April 21, 2004 at 11:28
npaisnel
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I have the same problem with the hard button issue, on a 5450 in my case. I beleive that Don is looking at this also.

OP | Post 6 made on Friday April 23, 2004 at 03:47
stricko
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This is a real killer issue for me. I would have to redesign virtually my whole CCF to put volume and channel elsewhere on the layout.

If I had known about this, I would not have ordered the product. I was looking forward to it arriving (later today). Looks like i'll be sticking with PDAwin for a while yet.

Don, any idea when this might be fixed? For me at least it's a much more significant problem than the panel +/- issue. Is it a problem in native Total Remote mode or just for CCF's?

This message was edited by stricko on 04/23/04 06:22.
OP | Post 7 made on Sunday April 25, 2004 at 18:15
stricko
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Well, TotalRemote arrived and I've spnt a bit of time doing back to back comparisons using a Fujitsu Loox 600 and an IPAQ 3850.

I've run both applications (independently) on both PDA's, using the same CCF. I won't let the tension build, as of now I'm still a PDAWin user.

With Total Remote, on the LOOX, I can't get the hard keys to work at all. On the IPAQ, the four hard buttons work OKish, but the up/down, left/right and select pad does not function.

Sorry guys, if thsi ain't fixed soon, it will be going back.
Post 8 made on Wednesday April 28, 2004 at 16:52
Wilhelm
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119
Hi guys,

I really can't understand what the fuss is with Total Remote. You know I often complained about PDAWin's lack of being able to repeat screen buttons. But Total Remote? Really I don't think that this program can even remotely compete with PDAWin.
I tested the latest version yesterday because everyone is so exited about it and was really disappointed. Well, you can press and hold a screen-button, but the IR-codes are simply not reproduced properly.
First I tested it with my original CCF that I am using for 2 years now with PDAWin. Totalremote worked with it, but didn't repeat properly.
Well then I assumed it might be unfair to test with a code sampled by another program. So I learned the codes again with Total Remote. To my surprise it was not even able to reproduce a single code learned from my Yamaha AX1.
And one other thing: What is that to load the ccf every time manually after you start the program? Who can use something like that?
So I stick to my PDAWin (again) it's far from perfect but it still is the best we've got. :-(

Disappointed greetings

Wilhelm
OP | Post 9 made on Thursday April 29, 2004 at 04:19
stricko
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I would agree that today, PDAWin is the best bet, but it would be nice to think that it is still being supported and developed. I cannot see any evidence that this is the case.

Me, I'm waiting for NetRemote to deliver full CCF direct IR capability. Hi-res colour, full screen access, even maybe the chance to use the core wifi capabilities. One of the reasons that I paid for TotalRemote was just to get the transmitter. NetRemote is going to have the same IR problems as everyone else, and for older (and some newer) PDAs it will have to support an IR extender at some point in the future. One option is to use the TotalRemote audio based approach.

In the meantime, if those nice folks at TotalRemote continue to improve their product at the same rate that they have been doing, PDAWin might not be the best choice for much longer.
Post 10 made on Thursday April 29, 2004 at 04:19
npaisnel
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Wilhelm
Out of interest, what is the frequency as shown in Tonto for the Yamaha? is it a high one up in the 56000hz region? This seems to be a problem for TR right now, the timing of the on/off pulses will be exactly as the original remote, but the carrier frequency seems to be fixed at about 38kHz (35-40 region).

What is the second data word in any of the hex strings as learned by PDAwin for the yamaha ? and for the same code as learned by Total remote.

Cheers

Neil

Post 11 made on Thursday April 29, 2004 at 05:23
Wilhelm
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Hi Neil,

Yamaha uses a standard NEC code for their equipment which has a carrier frequency of approx 36KHz.
This should not be a problem and isn't for nearly every other competitor, including PDAWin and VitoRemote.
Frankly, I am not interrested in helping another software developer doing their homework in my free time, especially when I don't even like it. I think NEC code and Yamaha are not so special that one couldn't test that without my help.

I personally am going the Netremote way at the moment and this really looks promising. You can get decent IR output with it, if you free yourself from the thought, that the IR-Code must come out of the PDA.BTW Philips does the same with their RF extender. If I need Direct IR, I will stick to PDAWin until anyone produces a functioning product by themselves.

I hope this answer is not too much disappointing for you and helps you a little bit.
Cheers

Wilhelm

Post 12 made on Thursday April 29, 2004 at 08:47
Robert_F
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58
While PDAWIN may be a better solution at the moment (and this is debatable as curently TR does a better job with my gear), It annoys the hell out of me that I paid for a piece of software, PDAWIN, and the only time I got a reply to ANY email was to tell me that a new version that solved the repeating problem was coming out soon. Well that was 10th April 2003, they actually said they's send me a copy to test. Well I never got it! No new version has been released and I've never heard a peep from them since. Contrast this to the efforts Don Stratton is putting in and his active participation in these forums. I think if PDA IR control with ccf emulation was an easy program to develop that it would have been done already, but it aint! Let's see what Don comes up with before being too critical, at least he's in there trying.
Post 13 made on Saturday May 1, 2004 at 18:43
Wilhelm
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119
I fact I found out a while ago, that repeat actually works on those iPAQ's that have NEVO support.
PDAWin does not correctly learn the repeat sequence, instead it repeats the first burst, but nevertheless I suppose they think they are done.

Wilhelm
Post 14 made on Monday May 3, 2004 at 18:13
Don Stratton
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Hi guys,

Total Remote does not handle repeat codes correctly, in the classic sense. Here is an example.

Real support: When key is tapped the device transmits the data burst. When key is held down the only command sent is very very tiny "repeat previous command" sequence, which avoids having to send the data burst over and over again.

TR: When key is tapped the device transmits the data burst. When key is held down the ENTIRE data burst is sent for as long as the key is held down.

The reason is simple; we could not come up with a way to absolutely identify what is or is not a "repeat command" without knowing which of 12 possible IR formats the data is in, and even then we could be wrong. We could not expect the user to tell Total Remote when a IR protocol used a repeat bit, because the vast majority of users wouldn't know what that was! In a protocol that uses the repeat bit, our method works. In a protocol that DOESN'T use a repeat bit, our method works. The screw-up here is that only Total Remote's native mode does this; we have not implemented it on the CCF side. Clearly this is one of the next major tweaks.

I have been having an ongoing discussion with npaisnel about problems with transmission and sampling, especially as it relates to Yamaha and Scientific Atlanta gear. I have come to the conclusion that we may be mishandling certain IR data formats, both learning and transmission. Of the 30-40 devices our staff have tested Total Remote with, NO Yamaha remote-controlled device was used, so there is very little I can say about it with any real intelligence. SciAt cable boxes are used by our local Comcast cable TV provider, and this particular box (made by SciAt) works for us! This means nothing, since npaisnel has found that there are 3 (or more) "styles" of SciAt box; 1 works with TR and 2 do not. Really maddening.

As far as button assignment in CCF mode, this is new to us. npaisnel has mentioned some of this to me, but I sometimes think I am not clear on it. stricko, what is the D-pad supposed to do when used with a CCF? I think I can understand npaisnel's suggestion about implementing a way of flipping forward and back in a particular device's panels, but this uses the little green arrows already onscreen.


--Don
OP | Post 15 made on Tuesday May 4, 2004 at 04:07
stricko
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Don

Thanks for getting back. I've got two separate issues and I think that they might have become overlayed on top of one another.

For the multiple panels per device issue, all I'm looking for is on screen buttons to scroll up and down between the panels. The little green arrows idea sounds OK, but bear in mind that some people (like me) design their CCf to be used without a stylus. How fiddly will the little green buttons be for fat old fingers like mine?

The D-pad issue is totally separate. The short answer to the question of what should the D-pad do in a CCF is; whatever you tell it to do in the CCF!!!!!

Sorry to swear, but with PDAWin the 5 D-Pad commands are mapped to Pronto hard buttons. I don't have a CCF with me, and I can't remember the mapping, but it's easy enough once you've got it wrong 20-30 times (trust me!). you could use it for volume +/-, channel +/-, whatever you like. Primarily I use it whenever the original remote has an arrow pad (left/right, up/down, select). So for may satellite/PVR and DVD remotes the D-pad has a consistent use. I hope this is clear. If I find a CCF, I'll add the mapping details.

Paul
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