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| Topic: | Horse De-Wormer OD's are filling up Hospitals This thread has 124 replies. Displaying posts 61 through 75. |
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| Post 61 made on Saturday January 8, 2022 at 11:18 |
tomciara Loyal Member |
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On January 8, 2022 at 00:59, buzz said...
Anyway, some will view all of this through tomciara's lens: "... The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions." | Point taken and accepted. “Sore arms and broken ankles” are not the first few I scanned. Thrombosis, respiratory failures, myocarditis… there is plenty there.
I think it is fair to note at this juncture that there are anti-vaxxers, meant to pejorative term, and vax-hesitants. Most fall in the second category.
Personally, I think that older folks and compromised folks should be first in line and this could save their lives. But knowing their are some risks, as with all medicines, this is where blanket pejoratives and name calling does not open up any understanding.
If you had a 15 year old son, and knew of widespread reports of myocarditis in young men, this is where you start to weigh the risk/benefit equation. Other than kids with preexisting conditions, the odds on significant symptoms is low, and odds of death are in the 0.00xx per cent range. In other words, he is more likely to die of a lightning strike than of covid. There is not a consensus that kids carry and spread it, so I’d be likely to avoid giving him a shot. His 80 year old grandma on the other hand, you bet.
I know when we dig into political discussion (which covid has become, sadly) it is hard to get any consensus. It does not seem unreasonable to me to make two statements and still be fair. 1) This is not a traditional vaccine, using dead virus cells to trigger immunity. It is a much newer mRNA product. And 2) we do not know long term effects on this mRNA product.
#2 is where a vax-hesitant person should at least be given a nod and an “I get it” from reasonable folks.
Even Fauci said early on it could take years to get a vaccine. That is because there is no substitute for time in assessing long-term trouble. A typical vaccine takes 5 or 10 years for full development and approval.
Going back to the 15 year old boy, it is impossible to know if he will have cardiac issues as a young adult or during full adulthood. What other issues could he face, in comparison to having zero chance of death from the virus itself? Is it not reasonable to be cautious? I go back to my example of a woman in her 20’s or 30’s who wants to have a family. You know that even drug users and drinkers will cut off the intake when they find themselves pregnant. They are protecting a child they have not yet met, and that is a passion for a woman.With plenty of reports of the shot upsetting their cycles, not knowing if a child’s development could be affected, is it not reasonable to be hesitant? Especially when she is again, 0.00xx likely to have major symptoms or die from the virus?Note also that omicron and later variants seem to be able to be passed along freely but seem also to barely be a threat to mortality - they act more and more like a bad case of the flu. As I write this, I know of 3 young people suffering the symptoms and they are significant, but recovery is underway. 2 of 3 are vaxxed. Symptoms and recovery time are practically identical for all three. (Why did they get it?)I think hesitation is a reasonable response. I don’t agree with an anti-vax stance and don’t know people who do. I know you will disagree with my points. I have tried to be reasonable to keep the discussion going.
Last edited by tomciara on January 8, 2022 11:58.
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There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions. |
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| Post 62 made on Saturday January 8, 2022 at 12:23 |
BizarroTerl Active Member |
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There arguments on if the vaccine is safe are naïve at best. There is no such thing as safe (unless you're dead). There are only degrees of safe. Something can be safer than something else, but we are never 100% safe.
If you aren't vaccinated against Covid you're 15-10X more likely to die if you're infected and your chances of long term problems is much greater. If you don't get vaccinated you won't get sick from the vaccination. However it is very likely you will eventually get infected.
So you can take your chances with getting vaccinated or having severe medical problems if you get infected. Nether are for sure and it is up to you to evaluate your chances. Current medical knowledge is that if you go down the path of no vaccination you're taking the (much) higher risk option.
It's you life and your decision to make. However always wear a mask when in public. It isn't to protect you. It is to protect others.
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| Post 63 made on Saturday January 8, 2022 at 22:56 |
Hi-FiGuy Super Member |
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Last edited by Hi-FiGuy on January 30, 2022 06:38.
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| Post 64 made on Saturday January 8, 2022 at 23:34 |
Hi-FiGuy Super Member |
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Last edited by Hi-FiGuy on January 30, 2022 06:39.
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| Post 65 made on Saturday January 8, 2022 at 23:47 |
Hi-FiGuy Super Member |
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Last edited by Hi-FiGuy on January 30, 2022 06:40.
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| Post 66 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 11:59 |
Anthony Ultimate Member |
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On January 8, 2022 at 11:18, tomciara said...
Personally, I think that older folks and compromised folks should be first in line and this could save their lives. 100% agree and I was happy to wait my turn. And people that tried to skip their place in line really annoyed me. That being said older folks and compromised folks that wanted the vaccine have gotten it. If you had a 15 year old son, and knew of widespread reports of myocarditis in young men, this is where you start to weigh the risk/benefit equation. agree but one issue with that statement. Unless we are talking FUD ( aka person without kid goes to website and reports 1M times my kid got Myocarditis from vaccine) there can’t be widespread reports. [Link: health-infobase.canada.ca]so for all ages (fig.4) Myocarditis/Pericarditis is roughly 2 for every 100k “ Up to and including December 31, 2021, there were 1,574 reports of myocarditis/pericarditis that met Level 1 to 4 of Brighton Collaboration level of diagnostic certainty. ... The reporting rate of myocarditis/pericarditis following vaccination with Moderna Spikevax is approximately double that of Pfizer-BioNtech Comirnaty, for all ages and sexes combined.” there is a lot more info there if you care to read it on Myocarditis/Pericarditis 1) This is not a traditional vaccine, using dead virus cells to trigger immunity. first of all the word vaccine comes from vacca which means “cow” and means from the cow. The very first vaccine was Jenner infecting people with cow pox he harvested from cows because he noticed Milkmaids that caught cowpox faired better against smallpox. That being said since then there have been many vaccines built on inactive viruses and so are these mRNA vaccines second there is not just one vaccine out there. Yes Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA but everything else is not and they are based on more traditional fabrication methods.
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| Post 67 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 13:11 |
tomciara Loyal Member |
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On January 8, 2022 at 23:47, Hi-FiGuy said...
Anthony you have my respect, really you do, you have been level headed through this whole thread.
It all comes down to which data you want to believe. I myself am not in the medical profession but everyone around me is and along with internet research, I choose to listen to the "in the trenches" information I am receiving. I am talking nurses and doctors working the hospitals.
All the data out there is skewed one way or another to meet a narrative of some sort, all of it. There is no true pure data out there anymore, regardless of the source. Dittos, appreciate sane discussion with sensible folks. I read a Bloomberg article about women in childbearing years being afraid of the short and long term effects of the vaccine. An excerpt: “ Rumors on social media caused some young women to fear that the mRNA vaccines such as those made by Pfizer Inc. and Moderna Inc. could affect their fertility. That’s not true.” There is no way to earn people’s trust be making a statement like that that is currently unprovable. But these are the time in which we live. A very close friend who is a doc says that statements like this continually increase distrust of the medical community, and he thinks that trust may never return.It has been an odd thing that the “in the trenches” doctors and nurses have not been wholeheartedly for getting vaccinated. You would think the folks that know a ton about medicine would be 100% vaccinated. And I know it is a hot spot, but there were doctors early on prescribing and healing people with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. They saw success with their patients, and when they were told to stop or couldn’t get their pharmacies to fill their prescriptions… well, would it not make you suspicious of what is going on? I don’t think we had any anti-anything folks during the first few weeks or more, after the “flatten the curve” mandate arose. We trusted those folks. But over time, ever-changing and conflicting information was unfortunately akin to the CDC, WHO, and Fauci basically shooting themselves in the foot.
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There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions. |
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| Post 68 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 13:31 |
tomciara Loyal Member |
Joined:
Posts: | May 2002
7,962 |
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For those who read and weigh data for themselves: Dr. Peter McCullough: Healthy Children Do Not Need to Be Vaccinated Against COVID-19 [Link: link.theepochtimes.com]‘Think Twice Before You Vaccinate Your Kids,’ Dr. Robert Malone Warns Parents on COVID-19 Shots [Link: link.theepochtimes.com]
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There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions. |
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| Post 69 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 13:32 |
Anthony Ultimate Member |
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Posts: | May 2001
28,870 |
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On January 8, 2022 at 23:47, Hi-FiGuy said...
Anthony you have my respect, really you do, you have been level headed through this whole thread.
It all comes down to which data you want to believe. I myself am not in the medical profession but everyone around me is and along with internet research, I choose to listen to the "in the trenches" information I am receiving. I am talking nurses and doctors working the hospitals.
All the data out there is skewed one way or another to meet a narrative of some sort, all of it. There is no true pure data out there anymore, regardless of the source. I respect you guys as well, these are difficult times it is not just you two that feel that way. If people want to discus this I like discussing it with them if people don't then I am Ok with that as well. On January 8, 2022 at 23:34, Hi-FiGuy said...
There is no way to prove you are 10-15 X more likely to die if you are non vaxed and get infected just like there is no way to prove that if you are vaxed you will have a less severe case. even if you assume the 10x15 is wrong. I don't get your point at all. [Link: theglobeandmail.com]"About 90 per cent of the COVID-19 patients in the ICU are unvaccinated, chief of staff Michel Haddad said in an interview this week. Among the hospital’s entire population of COVID-19 patients, both inside and outside the ICU, two-thirds are unvaccinated." not only that, maybe one country is trun by idiots and or has a chief medical officer that is an idiot. But if vaccines did nothing (except forcausing harm) why would every country in the world spend a lot of money to vaccinate people. why would countries where vaccines are usually paid for by the individual give free vaccines to everyone. We all have over a 99 % percent chance of surviving this on our own. 1) that is not true the chances of someone to die of covid-19 depends on the age. For my dad 87 pre vaccine the chances he would die (if we don't take his bad heart and lungs into consideration- just on age) was 1 in 4 2)99% is extremely good if we are taking a test. But let's put it into perspective. There are 200 people that work at my GF company, 350 people that go to my church, 87k in my small municipality, almost 8B in the world, 1 out of every 100 people adds up to a very large number. 1 in every 50,000 people that got vaccinated were found to have myocarditis or pericarditis (we are not talking dying and it is not known how many might have had it before) but Tom made a big deal of it.
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| Post 70 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 16:37 |
buzz Super Member |
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4,371 |
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Here is an October 15, 2020 presentation outlining the Moderna vaccine development. Obviously we know more details at this point, but an interesting comparison in this early data is the vaccine's effectiveness compared to natural immunity developed during infection. Another point to note is how quickly a vaccine candidate was developed after the DNA sequence was available. Compare this to the historic development schedule. Now, we have much better tools at our disposal and should be careful when comparing "traditional" (old) methods with current technology.
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| Post 71 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 17:08 |
internetraver Advanced Member |
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On December 21, 2021 at 21:24, buzz said...
I’d be interested in these stories and their retractions. [Link: newsrescue.com]
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| Post 72 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 17:22 |
internetraver Advanced Member |
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Posts: | April 2003
798 |
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Current data shows 95% of people who have died from COVID have comorbidities and 73% of people who have been hospitalized are obese. If you're high risk, scared or just want it, get the shot. Everyone and anyone who wants it has the ability to get it, along with as many boosters as they want. To expect everyone in the country to get this vaccine, specifically people who take care of their health, is absolute insanity by every definition of the word. If you're not going to take care of your own health, don't expect others to do it for you. This is a pandemic of the unhealthy, not the unvaccinated, not matter what lies they tell you, and what lies you keep believing.
Last edited by internetraver on January 10, 2022 10:52.
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| Post 73 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 17:31 |
Hi-FiGuy Super Member |
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Last edited by Hi-FiGuy on January 30, 2022 06:40.
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| OP | Post 74 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 19:23 |
davidcasemore Super Member |
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3,352 |
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On January 9, 2022 at 17:31, Hi-FiGuy said...
Not what I am being told from my "in the trenches" family and friends, they call BS on most of this reporting. Keep those worthless testimonials coming!
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Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time! |
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| OP | Post 75 made on Sunday January 9, 2022 at 19:43 |
davidcasemore Super Member |
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3,352 |
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On January 9, 2022 at 13:11, tomciara said...
I don’t think we had any anti-anything folks during the first few weeks or more, after the “flatten the curve” mandate arose. We trusted those folks. But over time, ever-changing and conflicting information was unfortunately akin to the CDC, WHO, and Fauci basically shooting themselves in the foot. Did you trust the Orange Orangutang when he promised it would go from fifteen cases to zero? That, "Like a miracle, it will go away"? The Republicans are currently doing everything they can on the State level to try and cheat in the 2022 and the 2024 elections. They are less likely to succeed if all of their voters are dead from COVID. So, please, keep going to the vet for your cure. Maybe Gwyneth Paltrow can sell you some magic crystal you can shove up your rear end to keep you safe from getting sick.
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Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time! |
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