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Way to go Ted Cruz
This thread has 19 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 20.
Post 16 made on Sunday March 20, 2016 at 14:41
Advanced Member
July 2007
On March 20, 2016 at 11:15, roddymcg said...
The term is used frequently and was used by Thomas Jefferson. Even back then the founding fathers were afraid of religion in the government. Something Cruz and many right wing nut jobs like to dismiss.

I agree, but there are just as many nut jobs on the left that freak out if a public school rents out its gym on Sunday mornings to a church. Or if a public school holds a choir program in a church. Having been to choir programs in a hot school gym and a nice air conditioned church with padded seats, I know which one I prefer.

Those two examples are taking things a bit too far. They are just buildings, get over it.
Post 17 made on Sunday March 20, 2016 at 18:18
Loyal Member
May 2002
On March 20, 2016 at 11:15, roddymcg said...
The term is used frequently and was used by Thomas Jefferson. Even back then the founding fathers were afraid of religion in the government. Something Cruz and many right wing nut jobs like to dismiss.

Or maybe he knows there is more to the story. Sometimes the story is abridged to meet a prescribed viewpoint. "Afraid of religion in the government" is patently untrue. A majority of the signers of the declaration (up to 85%, based only upon their own writings, which we have) were openly religious and some of them pastors/ministers. They saw the need of religion to guide government, so they regularly appointed chaplains. Yes the congress did appoint chaplains, one time on the same day the 1st amendment was ratified. Conflict, or have we lost the original meaning?

The distinction here is important. They did not fear religion in government at all; but seeing religion IN CHARGE of government (a la Great Britain and the Anglican Church) they did not want to repeat that scenario here. That is why the wording is so precise. They insisted government could not *establish* religion, but neither should it *prohibit* or suppress it.

"Separation of church and state" is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Either way, the "separation" phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Jefferson used that phrase in a letter to a particular church group and not in any government document, and was used to indicate his unwillingness to intervene in the exercise of religion in Connecticut. The phrase in that letter was not brought to light until 1947, when the Supreme Court plucked it out and used it to set a new policy that Jefferson himself would have fought against. While he did not approve of states establishing their own religions in these early days of our nation, he also knew the federal government had no right to prohibit it. The 1947 ruling thus has been built on by other courts wishing to eject the *free exercise* of religion in public life. Please note that many current fights erupt over things like prayer that are not government sponsored, just freely exercised. This is not a violation of that clause.

Depending on how old you are, you may or may not remember when prayers were routinely offered (freely that is) in public schools in the United States. Over time, as judges make more and more laws, and interpret cases based on other interpretations, rather than interpreting the original statute, prayers have become forbidden. Jefferson would have fought against this. His own writings bear this out.

Also it is instructive to note Jefferson was by no means a religious nut job, but in fact was more moderate or liberal in his religious observance.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 18 made on Sunday March 27, 2016 at 23:17
Super Member
March 2008
On February 6, 2016 at 19:44, roddymcg said...
You know I think this god thing is a silly as Santa Claus is, great story for kids. But as you grow up reality sinks in for some.

Some people just love their fairy-tales.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 19 made on Wednesday March 30, 2016 at 23:05
Mr. Stanley
Elite Member
January 2006
On March 27, 2016 at 23:17, kgossen said...
Some people just love their fairy-tales.

"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 20 made on Thursday May 5, 2016 at 19:18
Loyal Member
September 2003
When good enough is not good enough.
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