Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Crestron Control Systems Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 2 of 2
Topic:
Sonos / Prodigy / IP integration ?
This thread has 22 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 23.
Post 16 made on Monday November 15, 2010 at 11:28
vbova27
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2006
2,987
There is third party control for SONOS - at least to anyone who wants to devote the time and effort to doing it. Nevo works pretty good, but is missing some key features (mostly queue related) and Pronto is slow. However I offer both products to my clients and they find it good enough.

It's not so bad that SONOS doesnt work with most control solutions - what is bad is explaining this to a client why he has to use two different controllers. I have a Nevo S70 in my office and STLL use my Sonos controller. Besides having all the features, its just a better user experience and much faster so I agree with SONOS to an extent. I am a SONOS dealer and the user experience is essential to the product. But I wouldnt blame SONOS entirely for the lack of support. I have heard excuses from control companies from "it's too hard" to "SONOS didn't say we could do it so we don't want to crack it". Last, I completely agree with what others have said about creating competition. There are plenty of engineers out there - engineer a product that works as well as SONOS with third party control and you have something there...
Post 17 made on Monday November 15, 2010 at 11:44
motech
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2008
3,374
crestron is coming out with their internet radio card.
hopefully they will add pandora to it soon...
but it will already have sirius over the internet (i believe).
Post 18 made on Thursday December 2, 2010 at 06:20
wappinghigh
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2009
8
There is also pretty good third party integration with Control4. (via the separate Extra Vegetables driver) :)
Post 19 made on Thursday December 2, 2010 at 08:35
drewski300
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2007
3,849
On November 15, 2010 at 09:19, motech said...
LOL

+1
"Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!"
Post 20 made on Thursday December 2, 2010 at 08:51
Audible Solutions
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2004
3,246
On November 15, 2010 at 11:44, motech said...
crestron is coming out with their internet radio card.
hopefully they will add pandora to it soon...
but it will already have sirius over the internet (i believe).

There was a response on an other site from a manufacturer who wanted to provide Pandora integration that stated that Pandora had little interest in this channel because it would not generate sufficient sales to peak their interest.

You are seeing Pandora in TVs and Bluray players but these are mass market items with huge sell throughs. It took me some time till I realized that the CI channel is just too small. Once we had some cachet because we'd sell the ulta-profitable high end big screens. But since even big screens are now commodities we've lost all cachet with CE manufacturers. CI sales get the national sales manager his bonus. But CI sales have no effect on his job.

Can Crestron obtain a Pandora license? I'm beginning to think they may not be large enough to interest Pandora since their license may not generate Pandora the sales figures it hopes to obtain. I think the same paradigm is happening with Sonos. They don't see much benefit in providing 3rd party integration since it will not generate additional sales of their products that will meaningfully impact their bottom line. In fact it could negatively impact their profitability by incrasing their tech support calls.

You guys are all saying you'd sell tons of their products. But the reality, in stark numbers, is that total sales of this channel interest no CE manufacturer. Apple sold more iPads in a week that Crestron does in multiple years. The aggravation/profit calculation comes out against us--save for the intrepid individual willing to provide a reverse-engineered solution ( in the case of Sonos ) or integration in some other device such as Squeezebox that has released a SDK. They offer closed solutions with tested, easily installed products. You want Sonos to adapt a solution that will generate 3rd party touch panel sales and 3rd party DA products--all that use their service. Why would Sonos do that?

Alan
"This is a Christian Country,Charlie,founded on Christian values...when you can't put a nativiy scene in front fire house at Christmas time in Nacogdoches Township, something's gone terribly wrong"
Post 21 made on Thursday December 2, 2010 at 11:10
nardo1
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2005
628
On December 2, 2010 at 08:51, Audible Solutions said...
There was a response on an other site from a manufacturer who wanted to provide Pandora integration that stated that Pandora had little interest in this channel because it would not generate sufficient sales to peak their interest.

You are seeing Pandora in TVs and Bluray players but these are mass market items with huge sell throughs. It took me some time till I realized that the CI channel is just too small. Once we had some cachet because we'd sell the ulta-profitable high end big screens. But since even big screens are now commodities we've lost all cachet with CE manufacturers. CI sales get the national sales manager his bonus. But CI sales have no effect on his job.

Can Crestron obtain a Pandora license? I'm beginning to think they may not be large enough to interest Pandora since their license may not generate Pandora the sales figures it hopes to obtain. I think the same paradigm is happening with Sonos. They don't see much benefit in providing 3rd party integration since it will not generate additional sales of their products that will meaningfully impact their bottom line. In fact it could negatively impact their profitability by incrasing their tech support calls.

You guys are all saying you'd sell tons of their products. But the reality, in stark numbers, is that total sales of this channel interest no CE manufacturer. Apple sold more iPads in a week that Crestron does in multiple years. The aggravation/profit calculation comes out against us--save for the intrepid individual willing to provide a reverse-engineered solution ( in the case of Sonos ) or integration in some other device such as Squeezebox that has released a SDK. They offer closed solutions with tested, easily installed products. You want Sonos to adapt a solution that will generate 3rd party touch panel sales and 3rd party DA products--all that use their service. Why would Sonos do that?

Alan

I think you are on to something. I believe this channel is going the way of the plumber and electrican.. Its become a labor driven business with a majority of its product through another channel.
I'll let you know tomorrow..
Post 22 made on Thursday December 2, 2010 at 14:26
Audible Solutions
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2004
3,246
I think we are moving to a labor only model but there is also a secondary point to keep in mind. We are moving toward a new paradigm in content distribution. Where once you had to obtain content from an antenna, MSO or disc we are now moving toward a streaming model with heavy content protection. A lot of the solutions we will want to integrate will not be available to us because our channel cannot generate the income these source demand as the price of entry.

This is non-rational in many ways since this channel began as audiophile showrooms for residential and moved toward ever cooler forms of sub-system and device integration. But we are running into a commodity market where the sorts of solutions we sold get in the way of manufacturers moving boxes. Sonos wants to move boxes. They do not want to turn on lights or permit integration of pools. They are generally simple in install and integrate. They provide a defined feature set and clients are generally happy with the result.

What we do is far more complicated and typically involves individuals who will substitute effort for knowledge. They will force their way through to a solution with less than optimal products that clients are generally happy with but not ecstatic with the end result. It is easy to sell a box. It is time consuming to shoe horn that box into one of our systems. It may not take much effort to provide a discrete ir code or control protocol but lot of the products we sell do not have this. Control is the last item that manufacturers care about since 98% of their purchasers use the cable remote to turn the set on and off.

Where once we were responsible for selling highly profitable big screen tvs and displays now Best Buy and Walmart sell more in a month that this channel sells in 2 years. It's about money and we do not fit into their business models. We want to integrate their products and they have no desire to permit this since it does nothing to impact their bottom line.

More fascinating is that Directv is permitting--at last--more integration of their product precisely at the moment both of us are becoming less relevant. I can see IP control of a D* box on maybe 3% of this channels sales. If you look down the road 3-5 years content is going to come via ISP not the MSO. That is the next dog fight since that is that battle involves advertising dollars. Yet look at the threads here. When most of us ought to be selling fewer features we want to sell more. We think cool is good. We are in love with technology. The manufacturers get it. They want to move boxes. We don't.

Alan
"This is a Christian Country,Charlie,founded on Christian values...when you can't put a nativiy scene in front fire house at Christmas time in Nacogdoches Township, something's gone terribly wrong"
Post 23 made on Thursday December 2, 2010 at 22:25
cpchillin
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2007
2,239
Alan it's going to take a VERY long time for our content to be delivered via streaming. Broadband hasn't gotten to enough parts of the US, let alone the world. If you think that a wireless broadband would work then you need to look into AT&T's problems with their data network in NYC. Their network got so bad at one point they stopped selling the iPhone in NYC for a while. So the moral of that story is the more devices you have utilizing the network the more usuage and the more congestion. "Traditional" ways of distributing live and network TV isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I will agree that our channel is moving towards a mostly labor model. If you aren't into the complete package and including control then you need to get on that train quick. Learn about IP because it's becoming increasingly more important to know.
Who says you can't put 61" plasmas up on cantilever mounts using toggle bolts? <---Thanks Ernie ;)
Page 2 of 2


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse