Tom-

The problem is that if you don't have access to live update your odds of EVER getting an update in the future are about NIL.

That means for instance if someone owns an MX-700/800/850 and a new device comes along that uses toggle codes, they'll never be able to use it.

It means an MX-900 user suffering from the intermittent key failure issue is stuck with it forever.

Live Update certainly has it's faults. It's already been over a month since DirecTv started shipping the HR20-700, and it still hasn't been added to the data base. Big deal you say? Well, I own two of them and the codes for the AV1/AV2 setting are not in the data base and they're not on any board I can find.

Is that still not a big deal? Just learn it?

How do I learn codes which aren't on the remote, such as discrete power on/off, or slow, or skip to tick?

I can't. It has to be hacked. The code set can be detected with the help of a pronto compatible remote and re-created with makehex, which I plan to do, but I would not consider trivial.

Now I don't own a Harmony. I don't like buying dumbed down for the masses devices. But I understand that they let any user contribute to their data base. Something like the alternate code set for the HR20 would appear the instant *someone* out there had figured it out.

So, yeah, you're right. Live-update isn't perfect; but I don't see how never getting updates is the answer.

I was about to return my new MX-850 I purchased from an authorized dealer because noone would provide me with the live update s/w, but eventually URC decided to take care of me. If ldp purchased from a non-authorized dealer and that dealer cannot support him, then he should by all means return it.

I can certainly understand if he doesn't want to re-purchase a URC brand remote after the hassle.

You see, URC has put the cart before the horse. They've changed their policy to encourage purchases from authorized dealers who know how to support the device. I don't have a problem with this. This is not uncommon in the A/V market. But the problem is they are STILL distributing these devices far and wide even after changing their policy. They're foisting their problems with their distributers and dealers on to the end user, and that's just wrong.

Obviously live update is important to some and relatively unimportant to others; I happen to reside in the first category. About 3 years ago I purchased an MX-700 from an unauthorized dealer and was not concerned about the lack of warranty or telephone support.

Recently I purchased an MX-900 from an AD since I specifically wanted the live update feature. With the button push reliability issues with this remote (as mentioned by Jon above) I am extremely happy that I have this feature. It will be very interesting to see how URC handles the software release that provides a remedy to this problem. It would not surprise me if they do not make it available to those who purchased from unauthorized dealers.

If live update is of little importance why wouldn't URC have made it available to those who have to register their remotes to receive the software?

I will agree that when the remote is operating correctly there is limited need for live update; but it is nice to know that you have the option if needed.

Two of my three new devices are in the "updated" database which I cannot download. The third has a family which may give me a good deal of my functionality.

I "learned" one of my new devices last night. It only took two hours. It isn't like things have On, Off, Play, and Stop, anymore.

Next stop Small Claims court.

If you are in a predicament because of this new policy, email me.

Yeah, but Crestron doesn't play games like URC. You can get ANYTHING you want from Crestron and AMX......all you have to do is pay.

I have to disagree. I have the MX-900 and I'm anxiously awaiting an update to fix the non-responsive button press problem. I'm also waiting for the "variable" support for the MX-900. So live update is important to me and its one of the reasons I bought the MX-900.

If URC was truly concerned about un-qualified consumers programming these remotes, they would put a sticker on the box stating the device WILL NOT WORK WITHOUT PROFESSIONAL PRGRAMMING. Every electronic device you buy that does not come with batteries says so on the box. They would inform consumers in the online descriptions of these remotes. But, as has been said before, this would likely decrease sales. Sales that URC says they don't want, but won't take the necessary steps to remedy.
Of course Live Update isn't that important to you as a CI. YOU HAVE ACCESS TO IT. If one of your clients buys a new device next year and needs the new codes, they can just call you out and pay $125/hr for you to adjust the programming. The consumer who bought this on Ebay, who chose not to call you in the first place, is simply out of luck. Is it that consumer's fault because he bought something on Ebay for A LOT less money? No. It's URC's fault for allowing their product to be sold there in the first place. A "let's punish the consumer until they stop doing it" attitude, in my mind, just doesn't compare to "let's fix our distribution problem." I love URCs remtoes. I wil continue to support them AS a CI. But instead of griping and complaining about Ebay sales along with the rest of the CI industry, I realized it for what it was and utilized it to my advantage.
This is a big step backwards, and it's just shady business practice.

I would agree that URC can limit who they sell to all they want (I still think in the long run, it is probably a bad business decision, but that is clearly debatable). I think the real stink is over an abrupt change in policy leaving consumers owing remotes without an easy way to update their software. I purchased a MX3000 through an authorized dealer, and have programmed it myself. I didn't do it because I can't afford to have a custom install or that I have something against them, but because I love to tinker with tech stuff like this.

Ben

And your software comes in the box?