If dealers have issues with being undercut would it not be important having an MSRP and a MAP price set for all resellers? It's how we used to do it back in the old days for stuff our family business used to distribute. Selling for MAP was ok but for less is a nono.
From what I have been reading on a few of these threads the dealers should be mad at the distributors and manufactures when it comes to hardware pricing and let the customers do what they are supposed to do, get value for their money.

I also find it hard to believe that all of you that may have bought cars, houses, rented a place, bought a watch etc just accepted the pricing that was listed and didn't shop around. I would argue that if you didn't shop around you are cheating yourself. And if everyone followed the argument that a customer that price shops "isn't my customer" then none of you would be in business because I imagine a great portion of your clients price shop. I would hate to call any of you business people liars but whats that old saying about profit before pride?

I think the arrogance of believing you are the porsche of all dealers is silly. Because if you are the porche, and he is the porsche and everyone is the porche then on the curve, someone is the Kia. My best estimate is that you are like any other business in N.America, happy to take on work and put food on the table. Then again, your company is the porche of all companies.

Does this mean if the customer gets a smoking deal on Amazon and software for free they are the Veyrons ?

Just saying. Its the resellers battle and not remotely my problem to have to deal with.

Like I said before, however you have to rationalize copyright infringement to yourself is fine. That's the part you seem to be glossing over.

There is a MSRP. The reason you were able to buy it on Amazon or eBay is a dealer decided to try to make a couple of quick dollars and break his dealer agreement by selling online. That part is not your issue. No harm in buying a remote from eBay, you didn't break any laws there. Downloading the software, different story.

cgav

I am not following how the downloaded free software from that domain is illegal. I asked my 1 son and he came up with the following....

1) the software manufacture would have had it removed if it was illegal. That there is a process on the internet to do such a thing.

2) dealer(s) currently and in the past gave the software to customers and he felt perhaps that urc software page is for some dealers customers perhaps.

I am a customer, why can't I have the software? Because a dealer wants to make $150 / hr adding a channel or device?

I am still waiting to see any proof that the site or the software is illegal and so far no one has shown me that it is not URC themselves hosting it.

Joe - if someone posts something on a website and you can download it for free, you're saying that you believe it's ok. The RIAA, movie studios, and software manufacturers will disagree, as demonstrated in their (victorious) legal actions against individuals for distributing their properties without permission.

The entire web isn't run like Facebook and YouTube. When someone posts copyrighted material without the copyright owner's permission, it takes time and the proper legal channels to have it dealt with. The web hosts/ISP needs to be involved. It's an ordeal. That doesn't change the ethics of it.

Why didn't you just get the software from the place you bought it from? That's who you should be upset with - the company/individual who sold you the remote. Instead, you're making claims that hard working, extremely skilled people don't have a right to make a living. That's wrong. Just like electricians, mechanics, plumbers, IT professionals - A/V dealers make money by providing solutions, which require extensive knowledge and skills, just the same - which may include providing you with software. But the "dealer" you went to didn't. You had to obtain it through illicit sources.

It sounds like the "dealer" you bought from just didn't care about you after the sale. That unfortunate, because that's not how any good installer does business.



Damon

1) They're probably trying but it takes lawyers and cease and desist letters. Not an instantaneous thing. They'll never be able to remove it from a torrent site.

You want Windows 8 for free or Photoshop for free? Just go get a torrent. According to your logic, it's legal. You're ignorant on this subject and trying to rationalize illegally downloading software not intended for you. Just because it's there doesn't make it legal for you to take it. I must enjoy arguing with a brick wall because I keep responding.

Imagine an armored truck drops a huge bag of money. It's just sitting there. Surely it's legal to take? Absolutely not.

I know everything I am saying is going in one of your ears and out the other because all you care about is that you get exactly what you want at the price you want to pay. It doesn't work that way and you know it. The problem is you just don't care. You want it, you think it should be available to you, so you just take it. That's called low morals and is one of the reasons our world is in the shape it is. Of course your children are going to agree with you, you raised them with the same lack of morals you have.

Stop pretending to be some ignorant redneck relying on his "sons". Your schtick is tired.

cgav-

I'm sorry, but I have to say that your condescending attitude is sickening. I'm on the side of the CI, so that should say something.

Hey URC! I know you're here, so how do you feel about one of your prominent "experts" here going around calling the people that own your products, "cheap bastards"? How do you feel about cgav telling people that if they can't afford the "Porsche" to go and buy a poor persons car? Apparently if you can't afford a Porsche, well you're just trash and don't deserve to own a URC product.

I've owned URC remotes for at least 10 years now, but I'm seriously considering moving on. That's coming from someone that can afford the "Porsche".

Well if you bought yours through the proper channels and didn't commit a crime to get the software, my comment had nothing to do with you. The only person who should be offended is the user who sidesteps authorized channels to get what he wants at what he wants to pay and then breaks the law because he feels he is entitled to the software.

People who steal are by definition, cheap. If you break the law by downloading software you aren't entitled to, then you lack a moral compass. Those were my words you construed into whatever you wanted to hear. These are my opinions and not that or URC. I don't imagine URC has any input one way or another on my personal feelings.

All it would take is a simple authentication before install and update to end everything we are discussing. For this very reason, we hardly ever quote URC anymore because they have a different opinion than I do about locking down the software so we focus on manufacturers who have the same thoughts we do on the subject.

You have said everything I mentioned and there's nothing misconstrued about it. The fact that URC forces their customers to go through you to purchase and use their products makes you the face of the business to the customer, whether you like it or not. You are the URC rep to the customer. Even though you've never programmed a single one of my remotes, your words have made me decide to use a different brand of remote. URC should care about that. If not, well, that's another mistake they're making.

You were greedy. I can't believe you would have engaged in such a low practice. Not only that, your customers that you smiled at day after day when you sold products at MAP were cheating themselves, and you didn't even care enough about your own customers to tell them. I would never ever patronize your family business and would encourage others not to as well.






:^)

I don't appreciate people stealing software which I have to be professionally trained to get access to. Nothing you say will stop me from being condescending to someone committing a crime that affects the ability of my company to be able to sell a product, albeit indirectly. The only reason you have to be offended is if you too obtained the software illicitly. If not, then my comments had nothing to do with you. If you took it personally then I don't know what to say, I can't clear everything I think by you to make sure you aren't personally offended.


Just because you put it in quotation marks doesn't make it a quote. The only thing I said in that paragraph was that my company was a Porsche. It was a metaphor to say there are solutions for every budget. Someone who wants the software without paying market prices is pinching pennies and maybe can't really afford the URC solution. Again, not directed at you but at "Joe.Grims" who EXPECTS to pay dealer cost for a remote and EXPECTS to get the software as well. I never used the words "Cheap Bastards" or called a Kia a poor person's car or called anyone trash.


No one can stop you from feeling how you feel, no matter how silly it may be. Me thinking Joe.Grims is out of line as a customer is how I feel. You may see it as silly and that's fine. I'm quite proud that I wield this much power over your purchasing decisions. If you let me know all the other products you use maybe I can dissuade you from some other purchases.

You attempting to put my in your "cheap bastards" category is laughable at best. Just because I think your attitude is crude doesn't mean I can't also agree with just about every other CI regarding the issue. It's not your message, but the delivery that is the problem. You don't ever have to worry about me approving of anything you say because I would never deal with you, so it doesn't matter.

Check post #66 here:

[Link: remotecentral.com]

"If you buy on eBay and expect free software, you deserve any "disdain and vitriol" you get because you're a cheap bastard."

Those are your words and not something I made up and put in quotes. It's pretty clear what you meant about the Porsche comment, which I didn't put in quotes. You can try to spin it another way, but I'm fairly certain everyone knows what you really meant. You could have easily tried mentioning another brand and model of remote that is a good choice for those that maybe can't afford a quality URC remote, but you chose to bash instead using some silly class of car comparisons.

To be clear, I do not condone people obtaining the software outside of getting it from a dealer, if the dealer decides to do so. It's simply your attitude that is disturbing. If you back your words here about it, why don't you let us all know what company you work for/own. I'm sure future prospects would love to see what you have to say. Maybe someone would be willing to put your words in a Yelp review for the business. Since you stand behind your words, you wouldn't have a problem with that, right?

I'm done wasting my time in this thread now.

cgav>jestered

Oh great. I should have known a post like that would eventually show up. I may not like cgav's attitude, but I respect the fact that he can at least intelligently argue his point, even if I don't agree with it. Then you come along with your clever little school girl texting "cut down" and ruin it all. Cool story though bro!

I believe in being brief and to the point. I could have typed a large tome that details how individuals that do this are in effect, stealing our tools that feed our families, give us lodging, etc. However, my years of lurking on this board have made me realize that you can never talk sense into some people so I just gave my Cliff's Notes on the situation. Just like attempting to change the mind of an atheist or convince a non-believer in dinosaurs, some conversations get you nowhere.

I thought you were done wasting your time in this thread?

Stop replaying and this thread will sink to the bottom. That's the best thing we can get out of it.



Damon