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URC CCP Download
This thread has 125 replies. Displaying posts 121 through 126.
Post 121 made on Sunday June 3, 2018 at 14:57
Brad Humphrey
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
1,560
I wish URC would just give the damn software to everyone already! I'm tired of hearing all the BS from the DIY crying not having the software.

It takes dozens & dozens of hours to 'begin' to become familiar with the software, that's with all the training videos from URC 'AND' an already understanding of control systems.
90% of people are NOT going to get it right and end up with a convoluted mess on their remote. 50% of that 90% are going to be proud of the crap they slapped together and call it "I told you I could do it". Even thou they really didn't (feel sorry for the rest of the family that has to try and use it).
I know this is fact, because it seems like almost 1/2 the URC remotes I run into in the wild, that another URC dealer 'tried' to do, is a convoluted mess. And they have had the training, the time, and the experience now - they should be much better than the crap I see some doing.
The other 10% of the DIY treat is as a hobby and really try hard at it. Most of their work over time turns into really nice programming (even better than some dealers). Examples of this are all over the file section here on RC for some of the other remotes in the past (Pronto, etc.).
Those 10% should NOT have to suffer because of the other 90% of idiots whining "URC is being mean to me and won't give me software", when many of those are just trying to be cheap and not pay a programmer and don't care when it turns into a steaming pile of crap. They are going to give URC a negative review on every social platform anyway... just look around on amazon, ebay, and others and see how hated URC is because 'they' can't program a freaking remote. People are just stupid period... especially these days.

And as far as support goes. URC can have some basic programming videos for the DIY and if they can't figure it out from there - f^em! Dealers hardly get good support as it is, if they state clearly a consumer gets 'no support' then guess what, they don't have to give consumers any in-depth support. f^em. But please give them the software so they can screw it up themselves and stop whining!!!
Post 122 made on Tuesday June 5, 2018 at 12:00
tomciara
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2002
6,553
Maybe URC could have a DIY page with some disclaimers and a link for the software. Perhaps also a link to some videos. If they call tech support, refer DIYs to the videos and "have a good day".

Anyone with half a brain knows that you don't master anything in life without spending time at it. Brad is pretty much right on with his comments.

Being a dealer doesn't guarantee great programming. A combination of a few dozen remotes under your belt and reading forums like these will get you to best practices. You cannot replace experience. I don't give a rip if you are an engineer or an IT guy, your first foray into remote programming is not going to be very good. As Brad said, you may be happy with it but will never know what good programming is. Ignorance is truly bliss.

Just as Brad noted, I find remotes in the field by pros that have not been done well. The result is that things work, but ease of use is really just barely there. Ease of use is the primary reason for a smart remote, after all.

For you DIYs that spend enough time at it to be happy with your result, my hat goes off to you. It's a great feeling to Do It Yourself!
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." - Winston Churchill
Post 123 made on Tuesday June 26, 2018 at 01:24
clemdia
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2015
7
Why aren't authorized URC dealers replying to every consumer gripe with offers of paid "service calls" to simply provide a software download to paying customers? Is that somehow prohibited by your agreements with URC? I would consider paying a reasonable fee for a few minutes of effort if I saw authorized URC dealers offering it. As a non-dealer, it sucks that I have NO visibility into whether there are newer/better versions of CCP.

I'm yet another consumer whose dealer neglected to mention that the software was NOT included with the MX-880's and MRF-260's that were part of what was an $8k+ project. In my case, I ultimately demanded either a refund on the remotes and hubs, or a copy of the software - and only then I got the software. That was in 2010, and I still run that same copy of CCP - though it struggles on Windows 10 in compatibility mode.

Ultimately the problem isn't URC - it's dealers who fail to disclose their policies (policies not mandated by URC).

The reality is that for even a casual audio/videophile who knows anything about higher-end universals, the inability to do anything with the remotes comes as a SHOCKING surprise. Pretending this revelation should be perfectly understandable to every customer is silly.

And dealers repeating the blanket claim that CCP is "too complicated" for any consumer only alienates those of us who are comfortable with professional software applications: learning CCP through trial and error was no more complicated than learning PhotoShop or ProTools in the same way - it ain't rocket surgery.

The business plan shouldn't be that the the best universal control products are only available for the most inept, hands-off, uneducated consumers... or is that the business plan?
Post 124 made on Tuesday June 26, 2018 at 08:44
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2007
7,606
On June 26, 2018 at 01:24, clemdia said...
Why aren't authorized URC dealers replying to every consumer gripe with offers of paid "service calls" to simply provide a software download to paying customers? Is that somehow prohibited by your agreements with URC? I would consider paying a reasonable fee for a few minutes of effort if I saw authorized URC dealers offering it. As a non-dealer, it sucks that I have NO visibility into whether there are newer/better versions of CCP.

I'm yet another consumer whose dealer neglected to mention that the software was NOT included with the MX-880's and MRF-260's that were part of what was an $8k+ project. In my case, I ultimately demanded either a refund on the remotes and hubs, or a copy of the software - and only then I got the software. That was in 2010, and I still run that same copy of CCP - though it struggles on Windows 10 in compatibility mode.

Ultimately the problem isn't URC - it's dealers who fail to disclose their policies (policies not mandated by URC).

The reality is that for even a casual audio/videophile who knows anything about higher-end universals, the inability to do anything with the remotes comes as a SHOCKING surprise. Pretending this revelation should be perfectly understandable to every customer is silly.

And dealers repeating the blanket claim that CCP is "too complicated" for any consumer only alienates those of us who are comfortable with professional software applications: learning CCP through trial and error was no more complicated than learning PhotoShop or ProTools in the same way - it ain't rocket surgery.

The business plan shouldn't be that the the best universal control products are only available for the most inept, hands-off, uneducated consumers... or is that the business plan?

You make SOME valid points, however the dumb ass policies of URC are the problem, NOT the dealer.  I will say this yet AGAIN.  I HAVE NO  DESIRE, NOR ABILITY TO SUPPORT END USERS WITH SOFTWARE QUESTIONS AND/OR ISSUES.  My business is not setup as such and there will be no move to make it so.  You as a consumer THINKS I am somehow trying to screw you, or that I am simply an asshole that won't give software to you.  I don't care if you have it, I don't care how long or quickly it takes you to learn.  It's not rocket science and if you wish to learn, fine by me.  But URC putting the responsibility to support anyone I give the software to is BS.  I cannot do that.  I work 7 days a week as it is without this headache.  I am not hiring people simply to support URC end users, that is what URC should be doing.  So no, I do not simply hand out the software.  In the rare cases I did, it was clients who spent decent money and they were informed that I will not be able to support them in any way in terms of software.  I would retain a copy of the original programming file and we can always go back to that, and I also recommend they save as a different file name so they have the original copy themselves, but I keep them anyway as I have every file I ever programmed.
Post 125 made on Tuesday June 26, 2018 at 11:37
clemdia
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2015
7
Can you address the first question? Why aren't dealers eager to offer provision of the software *for a fee* on the strict condition that there is NO free support from anyone?

Believe me when I say that I'm not posting here to start a fight. But URC doesn't require you to provide free support. I write software, and typical projects end with handing over the software to the customer - where we make it clear it is provided as is. They know (because we make it clear) that if they mess with it (modify, extend, etc.) we will charge money to clean up the mess. It's not a complicated arrangement, and everyone understands the terms.

You make SOME valid points, however the dumb ass policies of URC are the problem, NOT the dealer.  I will say this yet AGAIN.  I HAVE NO  DESIRE, NOR ABILITY TO SUPPORT END USERS WITH SOFTWARE QUESTIONS AND/OR ISSUES.

For the customers we're taking about (hobbyists, "advanced" users), I don't see any complaining about a lack of software support - and that includes that MANY people who managed to get the software legally. However I see MANY people complaining about a lack of software. In fact, the negative reviews of URC that I find are mainly along the lines of, "Don't buy URC - they're a pain about the software - you're buying a brick." Honestly I've never seen a bad review that says, "Don't buy URC - they don't provide tech support for the software, and neither do their dealers."

 My business is not setup as such and there will be no move to make it so.

Provide the software for a reasonable fee with the condition that you will not provide any free support, and with the disclosure that URC will not provide free support either. Future support is provided at a cost. What exactly the problem with that?

 You as a consumer THINKS I am somehow trying to screw you, or that I am simply an asshole that won't give software to you.  I don't care if you have it, I don't care how long or quickly it takes you to learn.

OK... but then you go on to say...

It's not rocket science and if you wish to learn, fine by me.  But URC putting the responsibility to support anyone I give the software to is BS.  I cannot do that.  I work 7 days a week as it is without this headache.  I am not hiring people simply to support URC end users, that is what URC should be doing.  

Again, URC is not mandating the responsibility that you provide free support. If you supply it with the condition that there is no free support - only paid support - it becomes a potential revenue stream for you, no?

So no, I do not simply hand out the software.  In the rare cases I did, it was clients who spent decent money and they were informed that I will not be able to support them in any way in terms of software.  

And finally, we're back to the real issue: many dealers simply don't *want* to hand out the software - and do so only begrudgingly, even when it's provided for a fee and with the caveat that there is no support (i.e., no free lunch if you as a customer choose to use the software and screw things up).

I guess I just don't see the business case that you're making. Rather than provide the software with no support or warranty on the condition that the customer will pay for any future assistance/support/clean up, a larger number of dealers seem more content to immediately turn off a decent-sized block of customers to both URC and their own businesses - on the vague premise that these customers may be turned off to both URC and the dealer's business.

How does that make any sense?
Post 126 made on Tuesday June 26, 2018 at 16:34
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2007
7,606
On June 26, 2018 at 11:37, clemdia said...
Can you address the first question? Why aren't dealers eager to offer provision of the software *for a fee* on the strict condition that there is NO free support from anyone?

Believe me when I say that I'm not posting here to start a fight. But URC doesn't require you to provide free support. I write software, and typical projects end with handing over the software to the customer - where we make it clear it is provided as is. They know (because we make it clear) that if they mess with it (modify, extend, etc.) we will charge money to clean up the mess. It's not a complicated arrangement, and everyone understands the terms.

For the customers we're taking about (hobbyists, "advanced" users), I don't see any complaining about a lack of software support - and that includes that MANY people who managed to get the software legally. However I see MANY people complaining about a lack of software. In fact, the negative reviews of URC that I find are mainly along the lines of, "Don't buy URC - they're a pain about the software - you're buying a brick." Honestly I've never seen a bad review that says, "Don't buy URC - they don't provide tech support for the software, and neither do their dealers."

Provide the software for a reasonable fee with the condition that you will not provide any free support, and with the disclosure that URC will not provide free support either. Future support is provided at a cost. What exactly the problem with that?

OK... but then you go on to say...

Again, URC is not mandating the responsibility that you provide free support. If you supply it with the condition that there is no free support - only paid support - it becomes a potential revenue stream for you, no?

And finally, we're back to the real issue: many dealers simply don't *want* to hand out the software - and do so only begrudgingly, even when it's provided for a fee and with the caveat that there is no support (i.e., no free lunch if you as a customer choose to use the software and screw things up).

I guess I just don't see the business case that you're making. Rather than provide the software with no support or warranty on the condition that the customer will pay for any future assistance/support/clean up, a larger number of dealers seem more content to immediately turn off a decent-sized block of customers to both URC and their own businesses - on the vague premise that these customers may be turned off to both URC and the dealer's business.

How does that make any sense?

URC is not mandating anything.  You are making the assumption that we HAVE to give the software and then can choose to charge for support.  Or we give the software with no support.  How do you think the online reviews will look when issues pop up, and people call URC who tells them to call us.  People do not care about what URC has "mandated", nor will they remember the discussion about no support (conveniently).  Simply put, I want no part of this shit show created by URC themselves.  STOP putting blame on the dealer who has been put in this difficult position by the people that should either be supporting the end user OR having a hardline policy that NO software is to be distributed, period (like they do with Accelerator and Flex).  I don't care to be in software sales business.  I definitely am not able to provide phone support, and I should not be called out for anything for simply not providing this one "feature".  I already said I do not care if you or anyone else as a end user has the software, just that I am not going to be the one providing it.  T
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