This guy is in a whole world unto himself. He came here, asked for the software, and got ONE reply asking if his dealer gave him a link. BAM, we are all douchbags all of a sudden. I don't think I've seen anyone go from zero to b1tch quicker. It never ceases to amaze me how people come out arms swinging looking for a fight. That is all this guy did. He had a chip on his shoulder, and damned be all if he wasn't going to let everyone know what he thinks about our profession. I ALWAYS want to ask these people what do they do for a living, but they almost never answer.

Can you guys give a quantitative analysis of how much business you lost by this guy getting the software to program his own remote?

None by just him. But it's a devaluation of our services and what we do. If he can't afford the pro remote, he should just purchase a Harmony. I'm glad URC is moving away from the CCP remotes mostly and selling to just direct dealers. URC doesn't HAVE to give the software to consumers. It's not a product meant to be sold to consumers. If he bought a grey market product and didn't know it didn't come with the software, tough sh*t for him. He should return it and get a MX-450 or a Harmony remote. Something more along the lines of what he can afford.

And it's all a moot point. URC is so poorly self policed that it's incredibly easy to find the software and how to get it on Google. The fact he even had to come here and ask for it shows his technical skills and he shouldn't be entrusted with programming a professional remote. Anybody stupid enough to not be able to find it on a simple web search and comes here asking for it is going to get their ass handed to them and rightfully so.

How have your services been devalued? Because you sat in a URC training at a distributor for 6 hours, got a free lunch and got to buy remotes for your personal use and he didn't and you both get the same end result?

Dude, the help files built into CCP tell you how to program any of the remotes. Get over yourself.

i don't have a problem with people purchasing remotes and wanting to get the software.  but when they go on ebay to save a buck instead of purchasing through a dealer that will provide the software, then come over here whining about the software policy.... they deserve to be given a hard time.

the CCP help files don't mention all the stupid little quirks in the software that you need to understand how to "work around"   some people usually figure the work arounds out on their own, but URC doesn't make it easy.

It's easy to call someone names because they won't hand over what you want to steal, but in this case, please be aware that among the people you're insulting is one of the people you stole it from.

As for your other threats regarding illegal distribution of our copyrighted software, all I can say is that you're making it extremely easy for us to locate you. It's unwise to trust that the emails you might receive are exclusively from other people looking to illegally obtain the software. You might consider rethinking your plan.

To your first point, yes.

And in our case (my English teacher would get very upset that I'm starting a sentence with "and"), in addition to the 6 hours and free lunch, we have done our due diligence to learn the audio/video craft (in my case I've put in 20+ years), we have made the financial commitment to be a direct dealer, spent tens of thousands of hours in the field to learn all of the nuances of this equipment and have spent hundreds of hours (no exaggeration) building templates and refining our programming so we can be professionals.

To your second point, you obviously don't do this for a living. I say this because if you saw the vast number of horribly-programmed URC remotes that are out there and had half a brain, you would realize that people that do a bad job programming ABSOLUTELY devalue our services because these remote-owners typically comment "I'll never buy one of these again...it's never worked for the system." In this example, the value of the solution has just been compromised as I now need to overcome this hurdle to make the client see the value of a properly programmed remote. Its not the pros that do horrible programming but the "expert friend" or non-qualified tradesman/contractor that says "Oh, we can do that".

I can't believe I'm chiming in on this type of thread for the 1000th time. It's hard not to watch a car wreck.

It's easy to make assumptions, isn't it? I, too have been in the CE industry nearing 18 years and have seen abortions of systems from Phast, Panja, Crestron, Elan, AMX, Xantech, URC, Niles, etc. Are all of those bought in the gray and programmed by the "Expert Friend"? Doubtful.

When I was a rep for Fuze Media Systems (RIP like all the other "better mousetrap" Windows Media Center crap), those guys were former AMX and Lodgenet people. They told me that customers who had the large AMX systems never put one into their second and third homes because the first one cost thousands of dollars, the programmers were there once a month and the thing "never worked". Gray market? Expert friend? Sounds like the pros aren't much better than the ams.

So what makes a horribly programmed URC remote? Putting the wrong codes in, bad UI, poor macro execution, poor system design or just failure to understand the spec and the whole thing was destined to fail? I've sat in a lot of URC trainings myself and they teach CCP operation, workarounds, anchor commands, macro best practices and tricks to make the graphics on a MX980 point in the right direction. I've seen a lot of guys go glassy eyed because that's out of their comprehension. The "Pros". They never understood the purpose of control to begin with.

So what is the dollar amount you can assign to a loss because this OP of this thread who asked for and ultimately got the software to program his remote? Do you even know where he got his remote? Because one guy wants to program his own remote doesn't mean all guys want to program their remotes.

When will you start picketing Home Depot because they sell TV mounts? Shouldn't that be left to the pros too?

You first mistake is assuming he COULD program his remote, even with the software...

Your first mistake is assuming he couldn't program his remote. Just saying...

MY first mistake was reading this thread, all 25 posts lol

See the ! at the bottom of each post. Just report stuff like this and it will get deleted. Per Daniel, asking for software (or linking to or offering it) is a known no-no.

My first mistake was also reading this thread. I would have thought that enough time had passed that a single moronic post would no longer engender this kind of self-congratulatory bile from "pro" installers.

Duct Tape has it completely right. There is nothing wrong with a DIYer purchasing any of these products from a legit dealer and doing the programming his or her self. You guys have every right to be concerned about the grey market and expect some effort from URC to police it.

Where you guys lose me, and frankly, anyone else who approaches the issue rationally, is with the bull headed belief that only you can program these remotes because only you have sat through the training. Your work has value for those who need it or want it. Your work doesn't have value to a skilled DIYer so make your money on the hardware and refuse to support programming ... completely fair. But, URC built its business with the DIY community ... suggesting that if someone doesn't want your services they only deserve a Harmony is just bull manure. Get over yourselves.

I havent read all of these so I cannot reply to each one, sorry!

I will say that all of this is warranted, you guys can beat your chests together all you want. Fact of the matter is ALL of the two analogies I have skimmed, are way off base and are apples vs. pine cones.

HVAC and church bus comparison? Seriously?

I will be leaving this side of the forum so you guys can cheer together (or circle jerk, whatever your little hearts desire) but on a more important note; CCP is pretty easy to use and I have sucessfully programmed my remote. It works great! Thanks to URC for building a great remote/software with a crappy distribution policy. I got my 880 remote, MRF-350 base station, CCP and programmed for a whopping total of $225. This would have cost over $500 (if not more to have it "professionally" done. Also, my wife already wants me to add some of the switches, which would have cost me another $100 to program atleast.

This is a simple factor of supply and demand boys and girls. I pay people to do a lot of things for me because I do not have the time or knowledge/skill. This however is the classic situation where a bunch of "professionals" prey on the ignorant.

To the other post I read where douche number 4830 was talking about me going from 0 to b1tch in no time. Its because I have spent a lot of (wasted) time reading posts on here where you "professionals" introdouche yourselves beating your chests by hating on people like me when someone has a simple question you guys could answer very easy. But you choose to spend more time talking yourselves up than helping. Yes they could (and probably did) find the answer themselves but thought (like I did at first too) this was a community forum (like most) where people help people. Lo and behold, they get douchified because you "professionals" are mad that people are learning and doing what you were "trained" and get paid to do.

The fact that I have an engineering degree doesnt hurt but maybe you shouldnt jump to conclusions so fast. Case and point:


Now go ahead and hate even more, throw more horrible analogies out and puff yourselves up together all you want.

If this thread and you "professionals" weren't all filled with douchiness/cuntiness I seriously would have probably been willing to pay someone for the software and program. Because yes it did take time, time away from my life I could have spent making money doing what I do. So yes there is lost business.

We're douches because we wouldn't help you steal from us. Nice rationalization.

Darnitol works for URC and laid out that the software isn't to be distributed? Was it not clear enough for you? Would you rather hear from the CEO?

You want to pay cost for the equipment and be able to get the software. It doesn't work like that. Congrats on getting away with copyright infringement. I would assume if you were in NY/NJ you would be one of the ones looting right now.