Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Complete Control by URC Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 4 of 6
Topic:
"Above Average" Consumer - Need CCP Software
This thread has 87 replies. Displaying posts 46 through 60.
Post 46 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 09:41
TwistedMelon
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
435
I hope you guys apply precisely the same wonderful logic when running your businesses and dealing with your customers.

Simply amazing.

Every time you put hand to keyboard, you're giving your industry a bad name.
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
Post 47 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 10:57
cgav
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2009
1,546
Actually, the comparisons are valid. It's apples to oranges, admittedly, but still valid. It's extremely apparent you have some sort of axe to grind with URC for some reason.

The software is intellectual property and NOT NECESSARILY CONVEYED via a sale. They don't have to provide the software. That said, they WILL provide the software. It just doesn't come inside every box. I can't grasp why this is a problem for you other than some sort of campaign or personal vendetta against URC. It's how EVERY SINGLE remote manufacturer in existence, save for logitech, operates. Of course you don't want to discuss how this is a prevalent policy/SOP, as it weakens your argument.

If they provided the software inside the box, no dealer in their right mind would sell URC. I sell products of companies who support the custom installation market.

The warranty issue is a different matter. It's a legal issue. The product was manufactured for sale in the US. The warranty is valid and not required to go through a dealer to use. They may try to make it difficult not going through a dealer, but they have to honor the warranty.
Post 48 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 11:37
kgossen
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2008
3,022
cgav and Mario, no matter what you say they are right and you are wrong. Your comparisons are perfectly legit but when you have blinders on you don't see it, you only see what you want to see.

This ultimately is URC's own fault. If you started out including the software or allowing dealers to give the software you need to continue. Saying it's up to the dealer is just plain stupid. Either it's available to the public or it's not period.

Personally I don't care because I make good money fixing consumer programmed URC remotes.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 49 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 15:22
TwistedMelon
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
435
cgav, I already mentioned that I don't agree with the policy but that I don't care either way and that I support and respect URC's right to make whatever business decisions they see fit.

But, if you don't want to see others whining for the software, please stop whining about not having it as a dealer-only exclusive.

If I only had an axe to grind, I wouldn't use URC products and I would not set other people up with URC products. However, as a designer and developer, I have a high appreciation for quality and a disdain for lack of it, so you'll see me call them out the same way I would anyone else. The point is that you can be both a fan and a critic of the same subject matter.

If as a custom installer you can't rely on your own skills to provide a service, then perhaps there's a bigger issue at play than being able to sell only exclusive hardware.

It's as if there's no work for contractors or other professional tradespeople because all their tools and building supplies are available for sale everywhere. This is a weak argument put forth by people who are not confident or skilled in their craft. I'm not saying you have these issues yourself, but there are many more installers out there that shouldn't be in that line of work than those who are great at what they do. Like in every industry. Just saying.

Here are some other industries/professions in jeopardy because their tools/products/supplies are sold to the general public:

Software Development
Restaurant
Cleaners/Cleaning Services/Laundry Services
Daycare
Accountant
Bookkeeper
...pretty much every job out there.

Last edited by TwistedMelon on August 20, 2012 15:49.
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
Post 50 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 19:04
KRAZYK
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2010
481
On August 20, 2012 at 15:22, TwistedMelon said...
cgav, I already mentioned that I don't agree with the policy but that I don't care either way and that I support and respect URC's right to make whatever business decisions they see fit.

But, if you don't want to see others whining for the software, please stop whining about not having it as a dealer-only exclusive.

If I only had an axe to grind, I wouldn't use URC products and I would not set other people up with URC products. However, as a designer and developer, I have a high appreciation for quality and a disdain for lack of it, so you'll see me call them out the same way I would anyone else. The point is that you can be both a fan and a critic of the same subject matter.

If as a custom installer you can't rely on your own skills to provide a service, then perhaps there's a bigger issue at play than being able to sell only exclusive hardware.

It's as if there's no work for contractors or other professional tradespeople because all their tools and building supplies are available for sale everywhere. This is a weak argument put forth by people who are not confident or skilled in their craft. I'm not saying you have these issues yourself, but there are many more installers out there that shouldn't be in that line of work than those who are great at what they do. Like in every industry. Just saying.

Here are some other industries/professions in jeopardy because their tools/products/supplies are sold to the general public:

Software Development
Restaurant
Cleaners/Cleaning Services/Laundry Services
Daycare
Accountant
Bookkeeper
...pretty much every job out there.

Well said..........

Who cares who has the software. Most people don't have the knowledge or time to set up a control system anyway.
There are products out there in other industries, that are far more complicated to set-up. 
I'll use the motorsports industry as an example. Anyone can buy a Motec ECU for $4000 to $10,000 and download the software off the website with no questions asked. Good luck starting your car with it! It would take you a month just to build the harness!

Without the knowledge that goes with the product, the software is useless!
That being said, I think URC doesn't do themselves any good with their policy.
Look online how many people have purchased URC products and bad mouth the product; just because it doesn't come with software!

Give the consumer the software. Only a small percentage will figure it out anyway!
The rest will be looking for pros and creating work for you guys!
KRAZYK

Things you own end up owning you!
Post 51 made on Tuesday August 21, 2012 at 10:04
TwistedMelon
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
435
In related news, have you heard about the industry-wide musician's strike? It seems anyone can go out and buy guitars, drums, mixing and recording equipment today, let alone bang out a drum solo with a few pots and wooden spoons. ;)

I think the bottom line is that the custom install industry is a service industry. If you have the retailer mentality or retail sales is your only strength, then you're in the wrong business.
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
Post 52 made on Monday September 10, 2012 at 19:44
JonW747
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2006
621
Not to get this thread back on topic or anything, but URC's policy used to be that if the company that sold the remote to you cannot support you, that you could call them and they'd hook you up with someone who will or just send you the s/w.
Post 53 made on Tuesday September 11, 2012 at 11:47
JonW747
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2006
621
On August 20, 2012 at 19:04, KRAZYK said...
Give the consumer the software. Only a small percentage will figure it out anyway!
The rest will be looking for pros and creating work for you guys!

The s/w is actually pretty easy to figure out, it just can't compete with Harmony in that area ... so would generate a lot of support calls that URC would rather see be handled by 3rd parties or CI's.

The CI's, have their own requirements when accepting a product and as long as URC wants to be in that end of the business, they have to cater to the CI's or lose them to other companies that will.

For instance, my Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M was originally intended for CI's and other non-traditional sales channels. Too many consumers would be baffled by a TV that doesn't include a tuner, or speakers ... but in a high-end system you don't need that. However the KRP did include s/w calibration features that the pros demand. Once Pioneer abandoned the business and let the TVs hit the open market, suddenly they were selling for 1/2 the price they had been getting and were a great bargain. Now, I didn't have a problem finding a pro to come in and calibrate my TV, but you can bet he wouldn't have turned down an extra $3000 if he could have gotten it from selling me the TV too.

The problem is that when an artificial market is created, someone will look to exploit the demand. The more volume you ship, the better discount you get ... and the easiest way to increase volume in an artificial market is to lower your price and sell through unofficial channels. So there are CI's out there cheating other CI's who simply cannot price match because they can't achieve the same volume by selling at suggested retail.

Tech savvy end users are a legitimate market, and we should be looking for URC to introduce a remote targeted at us. NXG actually introduced a re-branded MX-850 in to the retail markets that included the s/w. Maybe the 850 is too old, but it doesn't look like they were able to sustain that model and they appear to have dropped remote controls from their product line. Still, in this day and age, I'd think there'd even be a market for an open source remote control where people could create their own firmware for it.
Post 54 made on Thursday September 13, 2012 at 13:43
Th3G4mbl3r
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2012
7
Based on my personal experience so far ssh someone who wants to own a mx980 in Singapore I must say it has been horrible experience. I even wrote to international sales vp as recommended on their website and guess what no replies... so can anyone tell me who is the authorised dealer in SG...

Or else can the few authorised guys on this thread who are saying they will help out with giving a copy of the software in genuine cases rcmail me the cost of the remote plus shipping to SG. And I expect it to come with software as I don't see how you are going to be able to come to my place in Singapore and help set things up and make changes when needed... and of course I am going to get any value added service or support due to distance I would hope the price is competitive... looking forward to see what responses I get.... and how many so called genuinely helpful CI or authorised sellers are actually out there...
Post 55 made on Thursday September 13, 2012 at 15:19
cgav
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2009
1,546
On September 10, 2012 at 19:44, JonW747 said...
Not to get this thread back on topic or anything, but URC's policy used to be that if the company that sold the remote to you cannot support you, that you could call them and they'd hook you up with someone who will or just send you the s/w.

I have zero problem with this policy. If you bought your remote thruogh proper channels (IE, not Amazon or eBay), then by all means, get the software from URC. I'm pretty sure they will give it to you althought I don't know this as fact.
Post 56 made on Thursday September 13, 2012 at 16:38
JonW747
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2006
621
On September 13, 2012 at 15:19, cgav said...
I have zero problem with this policy. If you bought your remote thruogh proper channels (IE, not Amazon or eBay), then by all means, get the software from URC. I'm pretty sure they will give it to you althought I don't know this as fact.

It's a little more nuanced than that. According to their policy, (assuming it hasn't changed) they will try to set you up with another integrator to support your configuration - and then it's up to that integrator whether to supply the s/w.

But my advice is that if anyone feels that URC has wronged them in any way, then by all means they should let URC know, demand their money back, file a BBB complaint, leave them a lousy rating at eopinions and anything else they can think to do until they get a positive outcome. But Daniel Tonks decided years ago, he doesn't want this site being used as a soapbox for complaining about URC's policies.
Post 57 made on Thursday September 13, 2012 at 17:44
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2007
8,260
On September 13, 2012 at 16:38, JonW747 said...

But my advice is that if anyone feels that URC has wronged them in any way, then by all means they should let URC know, demand their money back, file a BBB complaint, leave them a lousy rating at eopinions and anything else they can think to do until they get a positive outcome. But Daniel Tonks decided years ago, he doesn't want this site being used as a soapbox for complaining about URC's policies.

Then why are you doing it?
Post 58 made on Friday September 14, 2012 at 00:30
punter16
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
485
On September 13, 2012 at 13:43, Th3G4mbl3r said...
Based on my personal experience so far ssh someone who wants to own a mx980 in Singapore I must say it has been horrible experience. I even wrote to international sales vp as recommended on their website and guess what no replies... so can anyone tell me who is the authorised dealer in SG...

Or else can the few authorised guys on this thread who are saying they will help out with giving a copy of the software in genuine cases rcmail me the cost of the remote plus shipping to SG. And I expect it to come with software as I don't see how you are going to be able to come to my place in Singapore and help set things up and make changes when needed... and of course I am going to get any value added service or support due to distance I would hope the price is competitive... looking forward to see what responses I get.... and how many so called genuinely helpful CI or authorised sellers are actually out there...

What is a "competitive" price to you? The remote sells for $599.99. Your message gives the tone that you don't find this competitive. What price do you think is competitive?
Post 59 made on Friday September 14, 2012 at 02:03
Th3G4mbl3r
Lurking Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2012
7
Around 500 SGD including shipping and software as I will not be able to make use of any support or value added service...
Post 60 made on Friday September 14, 2012 at 10:01
TwistedMelon
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
435
Talking strictly about dollars, "Competitive" isn't a specific price, it's a measure of price differential. Saying something costs a specific amount isn't helpful. That may be the suggested retail price or even the minimum advertised price, but it can never be "THE" only price, because that would imply collusion and fixing - which is illegal pretty much everywhere.
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
Find in this thread:
Page 4 of 6


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse