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Topic:
"Above Average" Consumer - Need CCP Software
This thread has 87 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
Post 31 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 16:39
goldenzrule
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On August 16, 2012 at 15:46, cgav said...

I'm all for someone being able to program the remote themselves provided they purchase the remote through the proper channels. I'd gladly sell someone a remote at MSRP and provide them with the software if that's what they truly desired. I'm ultimately more concerned with the customer being satisfied than having to program a remote.

I agree with this. I have no issues with supplying a customer with the software if they ask. To date, no one has asked me for it though. People that go through the proper channels can easily get the software. The issue is in whether they know to ask where they are buying from if they can have the software. This is the problem that needs to be fixed. It would be best to have it labeled right on the box that the remote does not come with software. That alone will cause someone to ask. I do have an issue with the person who buys it on Amazon to save money over what it is supposed to sell for and then wants the software and berates the company because they will not give it to them. For some I feel bad, but honestly, just return the remote and purchase from an authorized dealer that is happy to give you the software. I also would not have a problem giving software to someone whose dealer went out of business providing they provide proof they purchased it from that company.
Post 32 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 18:45
TwistedMelon
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I've only ever bought URC remotes from authorized dealers and have always received the appropriate software. I've always bought for less than MSRP as well - every dealer is free to sell for whatever price they want of course. I have some 4 or 5, but only the MX-980 gets any use beyond testing at the moment.

My original recommendation to the OP of this thread was to ask their dealer for the software. The buyer shouldn't have to ask as the dealer should have been responsible enough to provide it for a direct customer sale. But maybe that speaks to the dealer. It wasn't mentioned whether or not it was an authorized dealer, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was.
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Post 33 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 20:38
goldenzrule
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On August 16, 2012 at 18:45, TwistedMelon said...
I've only ever bought URC remotes from authorized dealers and have always received the appropriate software. I've always bought for less than MSRP as well - every dealer is free to sell for whatever price they want of course. I have some 4 or 5, but only the MX-980 gets any use beyond testing at the moment.

My original recommendation to the OP of this thread was to ask their dealer for the software. The buyer shouldn't have to ask as the dealer should have been responsible enough to provide it for a direct customer sale. But maybe that speaks to the dealer. It wasn't mentioned whether or not it was an authorized dealer, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was.

Again, it is up to the dealer. They do not have to provide it. You keep coming back to this that you believe that everyone who buys the remote should automatically get the software. That is just now how this system works. The unfortunate thing is that URC has very old documentation that they have not updated. They also have a god awful website, that too, has outdate material on it. When the individual editors were available, they had them on the site for download.

The only difference between the dealer version and the public version was that the dealer version had live update enabled, while the public version did not. With CCP, it is a protected software that is not made available. It is made more confusing by the fact that they leave it up to the dealers discretion. I do not have to go and check my source, its right from the horses mouth. Different people at URC has told me directly that is the policy. It has been for a few years now. I know you don't agree with it, but that is the way it is. It is all a moot point if people just ask their dealers first, or build a relationship with a dealer that will gladly help out. Like I've said, I have no problem helping someone who's dealer went out of business. In many cases I would help them as long as they provide proof they purchased the hardware legally and through authorized channels. I think the weird policy that its up to the dealers is what opens it up to these discussions. RTI doesn't have the policy, and we do not have this discussion. Crestron doesn't have their software available to the public. You need it to use their hardware. Same for AMX, Elan, and many other companies. The fact that URC is sold through distribution and gets in the hands of unauthorized sellers, coupled with the software policy seems to open them up to major criticism. The fact is that the product was created as a professional product with the idea of having in the hands of professionals. I understand people can and do have the ability to program themselves. It doesn't mean they can have access to it. There are plenty of backyard mechanics that have the ability to use all the diagnostic tools a dealer mechanic uses, but it doesn't mean they can have access to them.
OP | Post 34 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 23:02
ez1putt
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On August 16, 2012 at 09:04, cgav said...
And it's gone.

Incorrect....it's still there in plain sight if you know where to look. No hack required.

After taking a look at the underlying application code (not the "coding" by installers, but how it's written), it is no wonder there are issues with CCP. Seriously, it's spaghetti code that a "D Team" wrote. Oh, and it's built on a technology that is end of life, so upgrading it would be a huge undertaking. No one should hold out for a significant functionality upgrade. Whomever is running their IT shop should be fired.

The only issue I have is that URC should put in huge font that "while this is a programmable remote, software to the end consumer is provided soley at the discression of the retailer". Problem solved. Who would by a programmable remote and even think to ask if it was programmable only by the dealer? It's crazy.

While I'm not impressed with it, I am able to do exactly what I wanted and that's modify my remote with CCP.

Oh, I did call URC. That was comical. They told me the "user guide" and warranty applied to the dealer, not consumer. This was a manager, not just the front line guy. Indefensible.
Post 35 made on Friday August 17, 2012 at 06:50
FP Crazy
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On August 16, 2012 at 23:02, ez1putt said...
Who would by a programmable remote and even think to ask if it was programmable only by the dealer? It's crazy.

99.99999% of my customers. I guess they all must be crazy , by your assessment.
Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time.
Post 36 made on Friday August 17, 2012 at 12:27
TwistedMelon
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On August 17, 2012 at 06:50, FP Crazy said...
99.99999% of my customers. I guess they all must be crazy , by your assessment.

If you are a custom installer, your customers are buying the solution, not the remote. You provide the programming as part of the sale. Completely different situation than what was mentioned.

As far as my not agreeing with URC policy of distribution of their software at the discretion of the dealer... They can do whatever they want, and I am free to disagree. However, that's NOT what I had the issue with. My issue is that they do not disclose this information or policy but are perfectly happy to see their remotes get into the hands of consumers that won't be able to use them. In fact they only communicate the opposite in all their documentation. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It doesn't matter that the documentation is out of date or out of line with current policy. As part of doing business it's their obligation to update that material or face the consequences.

As far as the phone dealings with URC and the warranty issues, depending on your local laws, you may be able to seek recourse from URC. Now INAL, but from what I know of consumer protection, their position as presented over the phone is illegal in some jurisdictions.

The Complete Control and all previous product lines are not at all the same thing as proprietary shop tools for factory mechanics. They are retail products and therefore are subject to consumer protection laws.

URC is honestly a dinosaur-like operation. Nothing I've seen, even visiting them numerous times at CES has lead me to think otherwise. The mainstay automation industry seems to be living 20 years or more in the past for the most part. There are quite a few exceptions, but they're not the big guns in the industry.

Last edited by TwistedMelon on August 17, 2012 12:35.
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Post 37 made on Friday August 17, 2012 at 13:53
Lowhz
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On August 17, 2012 at 12:27, TwistedMelon said...
If you are a custom installer, your customers are buying the solution, not the remote. You provide the programming as part of the sale. Completely different situation than what was mentioned.

This is exactly right. Every time this kind of thread comes up, every CI in the world screams about the same thing, talks smack about the OP and every other person who's ever asked for the software.

MOST customers buying remotes do not care about programming them. They don't care to learn the process or the theory of control and logic. They probably don't even care which remote you sell them. Giving a customer a MX980 over a MX780 makes you look like a better CI simply because you used a flashier remote. For every 100 remotes you sell you read a single one of these threads.

Why are there never any threads about Best Buy selling TV mounts? Doesn't DIY TV hanging affect your pocketbook too?
Post 38 made on Friday August 17, 2012 at 17:17
cgav
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You keep saying they are retail products. They are not. They are sold through distribution to approved dealers. If it ends up on Amazon or eBay, it is called "GRAY MARKET". They SPECIFICALLY told you this on the phone as well. These are from dealers who have broken their dealer agreement with URC. The only "retail" I've seen URC remotes at was at Magnolia, if you have one in your Best Buy. Those do have a sticker on them that say they can not be programmed without the software. Just because some rogue dealer put it on Amazon for sale doesn't make it a retail product. This is on Amazon:

[Link: amazon.com]

You think that is meant to be a retail product?
OP | Post 39 made on Saturday August 18, 2012 at 01:39
ez1putt
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On August 17, 2012 at 17:17, cgav said...
You keep saying they are retail products. They are not. They are sold through distribution to approved dealers. If it ends up on Amazon or eBay, it is called "GRAY MARKET". They SPECIFICALLY told you this on the phone as well. These are from dealers who have broken their dealer agreement with URC. The only "retail" I've seen URC remotes at was at Magnolia, if you have one in your Best Buy. Those do have a sticker on them that say they can not be programmed without the software. Just because some rogue dealer put it on Amazon for sale doesn't make it a retail product. This is on Amazon:

[Link: amazon.com]

You think that is meant to be a retail product?

I'm not sure if you're directing this to me, but I stated earlier that I paid full retail from a local authorized URC dealer. I'm not sure the distinction you are trying to make in "dealer" vs. "retail", but it is a product sold by a retailer / dealer - making it a retail product. Given that the warranty is through the manufacturer, it most certainly is a retail product sold to an end consumer through the dealer distribution channel.

They need to update the inaccurate documentation, user guide, and website. Just explicitly state on the site that it's not included. Problem solved. Can't just put it on a box as many dealers (including mine) special order everything, so there is no box to inspect.
Post 40 made on Saturday August 18, 2012 at 08:49
goldenzrule
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On August 18, 2012 at 01:39, ez1putt said...
They need to update the inaccurate documentation, user guide, and website. Just explicitly state on the site that it's not included. Problem solved.

This I agree with 100%. This would clear up a majority of the problems regarding this issue.
Post 41 made on Saturday August 18, 2012 at 11:32
TwistedMelon
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Any product intended for ultimate delivery to the consumer is a retail product and covered by consumer protection laws. It doesn't matter who is selling it.
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Post 42 made on Sunday August 19, 2012 at 01:44
cgav
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What about Crestron? Software DEFINITELY doesn't come with it? Oh no, no sticker or notice saying no software included, yet it can be purchased on eBay or even CDW?!?

RTI. No sticker or notice saying no software included?! Yet available on eBay and Amazon.

AMX. Nothing regarding the software. Available on eBay.

Of these four companies (Crestron, RTI, AMX, and URC), URC is the ONLY ONE who if you purchased from a retail dealer would give you the software if you asked for it and made a case for it.
Post 43 made on Sunday August 19, 2012 at 10:01
TwistedMelon
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This is the URC forum. Not the AMX-RTI-CRESTRON-URC forum.
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Post 44 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 04:20
Mario
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I bought a new car.
I changed tires on it and now my spedo is off a bit.
Can someone from Chevy send me the software to reprogram my on-board computer?

I bought a car from a dealer, but he doesn't want to give me the software.

Can anyone help?

Same thing, right? I purchased a vehicle and I want to modify it, I should have access to all of everything that can be used to modify/update it.
Post 45 made on Monday August 20, 2012 at 07:52
cgav
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On August 20, 2012 at 04:20, Mario said...
I bought a new car.
I changed tires on it and now my spedo is off a bit.
Can someone from Chevy send me the software to reprogram my on-board computer?

I bought a car from a dealer, but he doesn't want to give me the software.

Can anyone help?

Same thing, right? I purchased a vehicle and I want to modify it, I should have access to all of everything that can be used to modify/update it.

Did the windows sticker not specify that it doesn't come with the software??
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