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Topic:
"Above Average" Consumer - Need CCP Software
This thread has 87 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 19:39
TwistedMelon
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On August 15, 2012 at 19:07, cgav said...
Well that is all kinds of uncool. Can someone please delete this thread?

What? You can't be serious. The most uncool thing in this entire thread is this comment, seriously.

Why is it a problem for someone to post a link to URC's publicly available software? It's only ultimately usable by owners of URC hardware.

Are you afraid someone will become familiar enough with it to start offering programming services and eat some of your business? Come on, get real.

If URC doesn't want it publicly available then they would not have put the software up for public download. They would not include notes in their documentation telling owners that the software is available publicly on their web site.

Get mad, get angry, smash your fists, but the software is there because URC wants it to be there.
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Post 17 made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 20:12
cgav
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It's not publicly available on their website. It's a "hack" to get the software. They're stupid for having it there. If someone wanted, they could do the same thing to get the dealer catalog with dealer pricing. Pretty sure they don't want that publicly available either.
Post 18 made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 20:17
kgossen
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| Post by cgav made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 16:07
Well that is all kinds of uncool. Can someone please delete this thread?

Why are you still doing URC anyways? Overpriced remotes that don't program like they should, available online from many places cutting into any profit. I'm waiting to see them available at Walmart anyday. 

Just wait, in a year they'll introduce a new line of remotes that won't work with Total Control or CCP and there'll be ANOTHER software suite you need to use.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 19 made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 20:23
cgav
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On August 15, 2012 at 20:17, kgossen said...


Why are you still doing URC anyways? Overpriced remotes that don't program like they should, available online from many places cutting into any profit. I'm waiting to see them available at Walmart anyday.

Just wait, in a year they'll introduce a new line of remotes that won't work with Total Control or CCP and there'll be ANOTHER software suite you need to use.

What can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment.
Post 20 made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 20:39
Duct Tape
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On August 15, 2012 at 19:39, TwistedMelon said...
What? You can't be serious. The most uncool thing in this entire thread is this comment, seriously.

Why is it a problem for someone to post a link to URC's publicly available software? It's only ultimately usable by owners of URC hardware.

Are you afraid someone will become familiar enough with it to start offering programming services and eat some of your business? Come on, get real.

If URC doesn't want it publicly available then they would not have put the software up for public download. They would not include notes in their documentation telling owners that the software is available publicly on their web site.

Get mad, get angry, smash your fists, but the software is there because URC wants it to be there.

I bet it wont be there for long...
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Post 21 made on Wednesday August 15, 2012 at 21:26
cma
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On August 9, 2012 at 23:04, ez1putt said...
I would love to hear from anyone on where the URC website details that software is not provided for the model MX-880 and only the authorized retailer can program it. I don't see it explicitly stated on the product page: [Link: universalremote.com]

Right here:
[Link: universalremote.com]

"Q: I still believe that I can program it myself, how do I get the programming software?
A: Due to the complexity of URC components and its programming, we do not include a programming manual or software with our product. URC does not distribute its software publicly. Any unauthorized dealer who claims that they can supply you with the programming software has probably stolen it. We train authorized URC dealers directly in order to ensure the best experience for you the customer. "
Post 22 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 09:04
cgav
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And it's gone.
Post 23 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 09:31
TwistedMelon
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On August 15, 2012 at 21:26, cma said...
A: Due to the complexity of URC components and its programming, we do not include a programming manual or software with our product. URC does not distribute its software publicly. Any unauthorized dealer who claims that they can supply you with the programming software has probably stolen it. We train authorized URC dealers directly in order to ensure the best experience for you the customer. "

First, this FAQ is about UNAUTHORIZED dealers/sellers, so the topics within it only apply to UNAUTHORIZED (grey market) sales.

That said, this is in direct contradiction to the manual included with the 880 and 980. It's also in contradiction with the actions or URC. Again, because this FAQ is about UNauthorized dealers - the situation is different for Authorized dealers.

The only thing that makes the software difficult at all to use are the bugs, poor design and especially poor official documentation. There are a large number of "consumers" who are able to overcome these deficiencies and program their own remotes quite happily. I'd wager many, especially those with a programming background, even better than many/most trained URC installers.

I respect URC's right to distribute their line how they see fit, but I don't appreciate the double-talk and voodoo-like veil being cast over it. Just be honest and clear about the dealer protection system that's in place. This includes telling end-customers that if their dealer goes out of business they will be left holding a paperweight. :) And of course that as an end-customer, unlike most of other possessions one may "own," they don't truly own a URC remote since they're not allowed to resell it, and that any potential future buyer would be getting only a paperweight.

Last edited by TwistedMelon on August 16, 2012 10:49.
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Post 24 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 09:55
cgav
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Harmony is available at best buy, fyi.
Post 25 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 10:10
kgossen
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On August 16, 2012 at 09:31, TwistedMelon said...
This is in direct contradiction to the manual included with the 880 and 980. It's also in contradiction with the actions or URC.

The only thing that makes the software difficult at all to use are the bugs, poor design and especially poor official documentation. There are a large number of "consumers" who are able to overcome these deficiencies and program their own remotes quite happily. I'd wager many, especially those with a programming background, even better than many/most trained URC installers.

I respect URC's right to distribute their line how they see fit, but I don't appreciate the double-talk and voodoo-like veil being cast over it. Just be honest and clear about the dealer protection system that's in place. This includes telling end-customers that if their dealer goes out of business they will be left holding a paperweight. :) And of course that as an end-customer, unlike most of other possessions one may "own," they don't truly own a URC remote since they're not allowed to resell it, and that any potential future buyer would be getting only a paperweight.

I don't know about better than most URC installers but definitely some!

I agree with you 100% on URC's screwed up software and their policy. Having so-called "Professional" remotes available from online retailers is a complete joke (just like the Total Control line)
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 26 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 10:43
TwistedMelon
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On August 16, 2012 at 09:55, cgav said...
Harmony is available at best buy, fyi.

If you have facts or even opinion to offer, I'm all ears, but this kind of insult really doesn't do anyone any good. Example: You can always work at Best Buy if this whole CI thing isn't working out for you.

I'm not a dealer, but I'm a professional nonetheless, and I've been doing this for a long time. I'd put my automation, system, home, room design and implantation as well as CCP skills, up against anyone working in this industry.

While CCP is the most buggy and poorly designed software I use on a regular basis, the URC lines are without question customizable to a level of granularity simply not possible with the tools available for Harmony and similar products.

Now pardon me while I get back to trying to rescue one of my ccp files - upon opening CCP today half my devices appeared with a blank name. Nice.
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Post 27 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 10:58
Duct Tape
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hmm, what do ya know?  the link no worky worky no more.
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Post 28 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 11:30
cgav
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On August 16, 2012 at 10:43, TwistedMelon said...
If you have facts or even opinion to offer, I'm all ears, but this kind of insult really doesn't do anyone any good. Example: You can always work at Best Buy if this whole CI thing isn't working out for you.

I'm not a dealer, but I'm a professional nonetheless, and I've been doing this for a long time. I'd put my automation, system, home, room design and implantation as well as CCP skills, up against anyone working in this industry.

While CCP is the most buggy and poorly designed software I use on a regular basis, the URC lines are without question customizable to a level of granularity simply not possible with the tools available for Harmony and similar products.

Now pardon me while I get back to trying to rescue one of my ccp files - upon opening CCP today half my devices appeared with a blank name. Nice.

It wasn't intended as an insult. I was implying that URC (The remotes programmable in CCP) is intended only for installers to be sold to an end user. Can it be purchased online? Yeah, but it's not intended to be, I've spoken with the CEO and a VP of URC over dinner on this very issue. They have no desire for this line to be sold online. Their exact words. They've completely changed how the Total Control line is distributed (Direct dealers only) to control this exact issue. When a product is sold through distribution, it's nearly impossible to control it from being available on eBay or Amazon.
Post 29 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 15:18
TwistedMelon
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Understood, thanks to clarifying. In the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing, such as a typical consumer on any given day, even with the software, this kind of remote is not much more than an expensive paperweight. The Harmony line is already too complicated for most people to manage - or at least intimidating enough that many people won't try.

So I can see how URC, without creating a system for a typical consumer to be able to handle such a remote would not want general sales of this line to that market segment. It can make the company and product line look bad because the products will not be living up to their potential.

That should however not preclude someone from buying the remote from an authorized dealer for the purposes of setting it up themselves if that's what they want to do. Likewise, obtaining the software to continue to support and update their remotes after their relationship with a former dealer ends for whatever reason - even perhaps one who custom installed the product for them originally. People move, people die, businesses close, etc.

If URC does not intend such people from obtaining their software they shouldn't expressly mention in the product's end-user documentation that the software is available for them. I don't think URC has this desire however since we can see from posts here in the forum that they've stepped up to provide the software to owners numerous times in the past.

So I see this as another case of URC simply wanting to control the pipeline to discourage unauthorized sales. In the end, I feel like the whole issue is simply a product of URC's own mismanagement of their product line. Had they done things a little differently they could have better catered to all groups involved without these problems.
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Post 30 made on Thursday August 16, 2012 at 15:46
cgav
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A crippled version of the software for each remote USED to be available online back before CCP. You could enter your serial number and download the version for your specific remote. That's no longer the case. They're still selling remotes (MX-350) manufactured more than a decade ago. It's not crazy that the manuals may be a little outdated.

I'm all for someone being able to program the remote themselves provided they purchase the remote through the proper channels. I'd gladly sell someone a remote at MSRP and provide them with the software if that's what they truly desired. I'm ultimately more concerned with the customer being satisfied than having to program a remote.
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