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Will hire you to program my URCs. 2 5000s and 2 1200s a msc400 and mrx1
This thread has 28 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 07:02
RobertEG
Lurking Member
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July 2012
1
Bought my equipment online for pretty good prices, looking to get some professional assistance. Any installers moonlighting?
Post 2 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 07:19
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
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July 2007
8,260
Perhaps the online store that is undercutting us would be willing to help you program your new equipment.
Post 3 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 08:47
kgossen
Super Member
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March 2008
3,022
The problem is you've already told us you don't value warranty or service by buying your stuff online. Then when we tell you you it's going to cost over $1000 to program your stuff with the most basic of programming you're probably not going to be happy. Then when there's a problem with one of your pieces we're going to get blamed for it. It's not that we don't want to program it, we just don't need the hassle.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 4 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 10:23
TwistedMelon
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
435
Charging for service rather than selling the hardware makes perfect sense and IMO, if you're good at what you do, you should welcome the opportunity.

URC's product line would be a lot stronger and much further along had they taken a more liberal approach with distribution and sales. The installation industry would also be a lot busier, though at the same time more competitive. I mean, look at the sorry state of URC's software and firmware - does anyone report bugs? Maybe they're reported daily, but the lack of accountability lets them propagate.

I just really don't see the benefit of expressing hostility to a potential customer. Again, that's just really poor business skill - it's likely going to turn off many potential customers who also happen across the message. On top of this, nobody knows anything about the OP, including the reason(s) he needs custom programming or what he's willing to pay.

Can you imagine a Ford dealer refusing to do work on a Ford vehicle because the customer bought it from a Honda dealer, or god forbid, a used car lot? Or sorry, I'm not going to develop a web site for you because you didn't buy a computer from me. You might point out differences in these industries, but I'll point out the most important one. The people working in these industries already know that service is where the money is.

Charging $1000 for basic programming is however ludicrous and simply not in line with any other industry. Especially when most people re-use templates and previous layouts for pretty much everything. And in this particular case when there's duplicate hardware. It's when you get into creative solutions that the time really adds up. But I think some people throwing around numbers need a reality check and better explain the time commitment. But even so, who's to say that $1000 isn't what the OP was already thinking?

Bottom line, you don't know anything about the OP at all.

Sad.

Last edited by TwistedMelon on July 13, 2012 10:57.
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
Post 5 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 13:26
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
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8,260
On July 13, 2012 at 10:23, TwistedMelon said...
Charging for service rather than selling the hardware makes perfect sense and IMO, if you're good at what you do, you should welcome the opportunity.

URC's product line would be a lot stronger and much further along had they taken a more liberal approach with distribution and sales. The installation industry would also be a lot busier, though at the same time more competitive. I mean, look at the sorry state of URC's software and firmware - does anyone report bugs? Maybe they're reported daily, but the lack of accountability lets them propagate.

I just really don't see the benefit of expressing hostility to a potential customer. Again, that's just really poor business skill - it's likely going to turn off many potential customers who also happen across the message. On top of this, nobody knows anything about the OP, including the reason(s) he needs custom programming or what he's willing to pay.

Can you imagine a Ford dealer refusing to do work on a Ford vehicle because the customer bought it from a Honda dealer, or god forbid, a used car lot? Or sorry, I'm not going to develop a web site for you because you didn't buy a computer from me. You might point out differences in these industries, but I'll point out the most important one. The people working in these industries already know that service is where the money is.

Charging $1000 for basic programming is however ludicrous and simply not in line with any other industry. Especially when most people re-use templates and previous layouts for pretty much everything. And in this particular case when there's duplicate hardware. It's when you get into creative solutions that the time really adds up. But I think some people throwing around numbers need a reality check and better explain the time commitment. But even so, who's to say that $1000 isn't what the OP was already thinking?

Bottom line, you don't know anything about the OP at all.

Sad.

When you step back off your soap box, we can have a conversation about being able to qualify "customers" with very little info. We can talk about the people who wish to have professional assistance from a person that will do it on the side (meaning cheaply). Oh, and for someone who got some great deal by purchasing product from a non-authorized dealer online for pennies on the dollar. Sounds like I want to spend my time looking in to helping this type of individual. He may very well want to spend $1000 for programming. I'll pass. These "customers" are not what I am looking for, not going to help grow my business, and at best will pay me for a day, while creating issue down the road on equipment that I have no business supporting. By the way, go and try and buy a NEW Ford at your Honda dealer and see how well that works out for you.
Post 6 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 13:38
TwistedMelon
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
435
I couldn't shake this issue from the back of my mind since posting. I considered for a moment if it was poster's remorse, that perhaps I shouldn't have interloped into someone else's business. BUt that wasn't it and I realized I was more upset about it than when I posted.

Given the state of the economy, it's painful to see people running businesses like they're out of the stone age and fluffing away others without a thought. You can run your business the way you want to run it, but nothing gives you the right to pass judgement on someone else, especially when you have no information whatsoever.

If you make $1000 in a day from setting up a URC remote, power to you, that's great. I wouldn't expect you'd have every single day booked up, but maybe you have that going as well. I can't imagine how much a typical CI company is making if they can afford to pay their employees $1000 per day. If you run your own business that's entirely a different story, but then again, this type of job wouldn't be "on the side" at all in that case.

Would you have a problem if this individual didn't buy these remotes new? As an owner of these products bought from authorized dealers, are customers not allowed to resell them? Seriously, who's on the soap box? In all fairness, IANAL, but I'd also like to see URC weasel out of state and federal warranty laws due to where a person purchased their products. Now I'm not so upset, because I'm chuckling.

And I'll repeat, whatever your feelings are, these kinds of posts are sure to rub others the wrong way as well, including potential customers. As a business person if you're not out to win business, you should at least avoid damaging future prospects. I've never seen anyone hang a sign that reads "we don't need your business" - probably for a reason.

But hey, don't let me stop you from doing what you want, I'm just sharing my 2 cents as you've done.

Last edited by TwistedMelon on July 13, 2012 14:29.
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
Post 7 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 16:09
Tom Ciaramitaro
Loyal Member
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May 2002
7,397
On July 13, 2012 at 13:38, TwistedMelon said...
If you make $1000 in a day from setting up a URC remote, power to you, that's great.

You are right, this is pretty wrong for "a URC remote". However, I see 4 remotes that are graphically based (more opportunity for customizing, and longer setup time than text based remotes). Add a couple base stations, and where does that put the $1000 hypothetical price?

And I'll repeat, whatever your feelings are, these kinds of posts are sure to rub others the wrong way as well, including potential customers.

I'm with you on this statement. There's a lot of people who could respond more gracefully but are more happy to slap someone around.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 8 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 18:21
Lowhz
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2012
1,168
Half of something is better than all of nothing. Customer is looking for programming support and your overhead is your time. The Remote Central attitude on these things (and this customer isn't even asking for the software to do it himself) is sad.
Post 9 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 20:57
punter16
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
485
"Any installers moonlighting?"

That quote evokes images of someone trying to get something done for a cheaper price than they would if they were dealing with these same installers that weren't moonlighting. Soooo...he's trying to save some bucks.

There isn't anything wrong with trying to save some money. However, you're going to get some hostility when someone wants you to work for less than your average wage. How do you think your dentist will respond to, "If I catch you after hours, think you can drill this for a 20 spot?" or your dermatologist to "I'll kick you some cold hard cash if you can scrape this basal cell off the books".

What do you do in life? Want to do it half price after hours? Exactly...
Post 10 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 22:13
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
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Posts:
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8,260
On July 13, 2012 at 20:57, punter16 said...
"Any installers moonlighting?"

That quote evokes images of someone trying to get something done for a cheaper price than they would if they were dealing with these same installers that weren't moonlighting. Soooo...he's trying to save some bucks.

There isn't anything wrong with trying to save some money. However, you're going to get some hostility when someone wants you to work for less than your average wage. How do you think your dentist will respond to, "If I catch you after hours, think you can drill this for a 20 spot?" or your dermatologist to "I'll kick you some cold hard cash if you can scrape this basal cell off the books".

What do you do in life? Want to do it half price after hours? Exactly...

This is exactly my point. I and many others like me work hard, damn hard at not only getting business, but keeping our clients happy. When people go online and purchase unauthorized products, then come here and search for a pro that wants to install their product that they bought cheaply for less money. He would not ask for someone that moonlights if he is ok with spending the going rate. I did not throw around the dollar amount, rather I pointed out that what he is doing, imho, is out of line. He came to a site in which the core members are professionals looking for a side deal. This is going on in pretty much all industries, not just ours, and is hurting our economy as much as anything. If you cannot afford to pay for the going rate for the product, then you simply cannot afford it. I would love to walk into a Mercedes dealer and ask them for a AMG powered Benz, but pay far less if I do it on the side for cash to one of their salespeople that just sells them out the back lot. It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and purchasing that car at regular price would mean I am living above my means. If he CAN afford to pay someone the going rate, then simply pay the going rate. Anything less is just trying to screw someone over to get what you want.

To the comment about trying to win business. I do fine with my potential clients. I come here to talk with my peers, not seek out new customers. We are in an industry where the masses think we are either not needed, overpaid, or cheating folks out of their hard earned money. We are a skilled bunch that have learned a trade, just as any other trade does, and have standard rates just at any other industry does. I have no problem with people shopping between companies to get a better price. It can be annoying, but that is working within the system as far as I am concerned. Most companies will be within the same price give or take about $10 an hour from what I have seen. When someone wants to find someone to do the same work for half, or even less than the going rate, than I think it is unfair to blame a company for turning that work away. I don't think it makes them arrogant, snobs, or anything negative for not being willing to work for FAR less than their earned worth. As a business owner, if I don't make a certain amount of money per job, than I will be in the red. Overhead, insurance, payroll, TAXES, all are factored in and way higher than most people realize. If I did a job for $60 an hour, I would end up paying out of my pocket in the end to install a system for a customer. It's just business, and unfortunately, peoples feelings get hurt on both sides. If I offend people along the way, I apologize, but my entire life, day and night is dedicated to building a business that often times is thankless and viewed as "not real work". Shoot, I have had discussions with customers where they argue because the cable guy told them something has to be done a certain way, and believe that I do not know what I a talking about. Talk about thankless. Anyway, my point is simply that while I do not know the OP's situation, I think he probably does understand that there is a going rate to complete the work he wants done, and that he obviously knows what the gear he bought typically costs, and he is trying to circumvent the system to get what he wants for a fraction of what it normally would cost. I am sure he will find someone to do what he wants. It sucks from a business owners standpoint, but to tell you the truth, he is not the type of client I want. If that makes me arrogant, than so be it. I seek out the clients that understand that I am performing a service, and that requires a certain level of compensation.
Post 11 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 22:45
punter16
Long Time Member
Joined:
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485
Amen!
Post 12 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 23:27
cgav
Select Member
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September 2009
1,546
On July 13, 2012 at 10:23, TwistedMelon said...

Can you imagine a Ford dealer refusing to do work on a Ford vehicle because the customer bought it from a Honda dealer, or god forbid, a used car lot? Or sorry, I'm not going to develop a web site for you because you didn't buy a computer from me. You might point out differences in these industries, but I'll point out the most important one. The people working in these industries already know that service is where the money is.

I ABSOLUTELY could see a Ford dealer refusing to service a Ford bought at a Honda dealership if that owner was trying to call the shots. Go to a Ford Dealership and tell them you want a new engine but only want to pay for a transmission flush.

An old video is appropriate here:

Post 13 made on Friday July 13, 2012 at 23:53
kgossen
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2008
3,022
On July 13, 2012 at 10:23, TwistedMelon said...
Charging $1000 for basic programming is however ludicrous and simply not in line with any other industry. Especially when most people re-use templates and previous layouts for pretty much everything. And in this particular case when there's duplicate hardware. It's when you get into creative solutions that the time really adds up. But I think some people throwing around numbers need a reality check and better explain the time commitment. But even so, who's to say that $1000 isn't what the OP was already thinking?

Bottom line, you don't know anything about the OP at all.

Sad.

Charging $1000 to program 6 devices is ludicrous? Obviously you don't so this for a living or you don't value your time. Everything URC does is a template, it's just the fine tuning that takes time. IF you're just putting out cookie cutter crap, then fine. Why don't you offer your services?
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 14 made on Saturday July 14, 2012 at 03:29
Mitch57
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2003
722
On July 13, 2012 at 22:13, goldenzrule said...
This is exactly my point. I and many others like me work hard, damn hard at not only getting business, but keeping our clients happy. When people go online and purchase unauthorized products, then come here and search for a pro that wants to install their product that they bought cheaply for less money. He would not ask for someone that moonlights if he is ok with spending the going rate. I did not throw around the dollar amount, rather I pointed out that what he is doing, imho, is out of line. He came to a site in which the core members are professionals looking for a side deal. This is going on in pretty much all industries, not just ours, and is hurting our economy as much as anything. If you cannot afford to pay for the going rate for the product, then you simply cannot afford it. I would love to walk into a Mercedes dealer and ask them for a AMG powered Benz, but pay far less if I do it on the side for cash to one of their salespeople that just sells them out the back lot. It doesn't work that way unfortunately, and purchasing that car at regular price would mean I am living above my means. If he CAN afford to pay someone the going rate, then simply pay the going rate. Anything less is just trying to screw someone over to get what you want.

To the comment about trying to win business. I do fine with my potential clients. I come here to talk with my peers, not seek out new customers. We are in an industry where the masses think we are either not needed, overpaid, or cheating folks out of their hard earned money. We are a skilled bunch that have learned a trade, just as any other trade does, and have standard rates just at any other industry does. I have no problem with people shopping between companies to get a better price. It can be annoying, but that is working within the system as far as I am concerned. Most companies will be within the same price give or take about $10 an hour from what I have seen. When someone wants to find someone to do the same work for half, or even less than the going rate, than I think it is unfair to blame a company for turning that work away. I don't think it makes them arrogant, snobs, or anything negative for not being willing to work for FAR less than their earned worth. As a business owner, if I don't make a certain amount of money per job, than I will be in the red. Overhead, insurance, payroll, TAXES, all are factored in and way higher than most people realize. If I did a job for $60 an hour, I would end up paying out of my pocket in the end to install a system for a customer. It's just business, and unfortunately, peoples feelings get hurt on both sides. If I offend people along the way, I apologize, but my entire life, day and night is dedicated to building a business that often times is thankless and viewed as "not real work". Shoot, I have had discussions with customers where they argue because the cable guy told them something has to be done a certain way, and believe that I do not know what I a talking about. Talk about thankless. Anyway, my point is simply that while I do not know the OP's situation, I think he probably does understand that there is a going rate to complete the work he wants done, and that he obviously knows what the gear he bought typically costs, and he is trying to circumvent the system to get what he wants for a fraction of what it normally would cost. I am sure he will find someone to do what he wants. It sucks from a business owners standpoint, but to tell you the truth, he is not the type of client I want. If that makes me arrogant, than so be it. I seek out the clients that understand that I am performing a service, and that requires a certain level of compensation.

I didn't even read your post! Two paragraphs of run-on sentences. Sorry, but how about breaking up your verbiage into more smaller digestible bites.

I can't even offer an opinion at this point....
Post 15 made on Saturday July 14, 2012 at 06:58
goldenzrule
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2007
8,260
On July 14, 2012 at 03:29, Mitch57 said...
I didn't even read your post! Two paragraphs of run-on sentences. Sorry, but how about breaking up your verbiage into more smaller digestible bites.

I can't even offer an opinion at this point....

I wrote that at 10 PM after getting home from running around servicing my clients. That is what this business entails. I didn't use run on sentences, perhaps didn't break up into paragraphs, but after an ~ 14 day, I really did not care much about the sentence structure of my forum post. Question however, how would you know if it is run on sentences or not if you did not read it?
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