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Topic:
Improving RFX-250 Performance
This thread has 44 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Tuesday December 26, 2006 at 18:12
learninght
Long Time Member
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18
SUMMARY
There are two relatively easy ways to improve RFX-250 performance. I recommend using method 1 on EVERY RFX-250 installation as it greatly improved perceived RF interference and costs less than $1. Method 2 is useful to reliably extend RFX-250 operation to over 500 feet (which I have tested) (and probably to about 1,000 feet though I have not tested that length) and costs about $20. Method 2 should always be used with method 1.

DETAILS OF WHY
These methods are proven to greatly reduce perceived incidences of RF interference, which are really caused by noisy and/or insufficient power to the RFX-250. The RFX-250 requires a power supply of between 4.5 and 5.5 volts. On average it draws about 8ma when idle and up to 13ma when receiving data. The “on average” part is the kicker. Digital devices like the RFX-250 pull lots of current for very short bursts of time—typically in the microsecond or even nanosecond range. These draws can be many time the ‘average” current draw and, if the power supply cannot keep up, the device will malfunction.

The RFX-250 takes its power from whatever device it is attached to, such as the MRF-350 I used for my testing. Power is supplied over a long, thin pair of wires, which have resistance and capacitance attributes that limit how well changes in power can be accommodated: the longer the wire, the worse the problem. That’s why UR recommends doubling or quadrupling wire pairs in CAT-5 cables, so as to reduce wire resistance.

I have great respect for UR and their products. However, they are simply off the mark on this advice. Good digital electronic design requires the use of one, or several, bulk decoupling capacitors at the power supply input. This is especially critical if even several inches of wire are used. The UR design supplies a 10 foot cable for attaching the RFX-250—that’s 120 inches of wire. And there is ZERO decoupling capacitance at the input.

The problem is this: when the 250 is just sitting idle, it pulls a fairly constant current. But when it receives an RF input, it goes into action and drives a signal to the MRF-350 and also turns on an LED indicator. These actions nearly double the power consumption of the 250 and also cause short term current consumption of even greater amounts.

Without a decoupling capacitor, the 250 will often malfunction and simply light up the RF indicator even when RF isn’t present. You think there’s radio interference when there is not—or not nearly as much as the 250 seems to indicate.

The ideal fix is for UR to build bulk decoupling capacitance into every RFX-250 they sell. I have not done a full analysis, but were I the UR engineer, I’d put in a 100uF, a 10uF, a 1uF and a .1uF capacitor right at the power entry point. Different size capacitors respond to different duration transients. The biggest capacitor (100uf) provides a long term reserve storage of power that could last for milliseconds. The smaller ones respond to shorter requirements and are needed because larger capacitors take a bit of time to start supplying power. These changes will greatly enhance the performance of the RFX-250 system and increase production costs by < $1.
I vastly improved my own system’s performance by installing a 47uf tantalum capacitor (Digikey part# 478-4180-ND, cost = $0.91).across the +5 and GND inputs to the 250. I started by simply inserting the capacitor into the screw terminals outside the box. I ultimately opened the 25 box and soldered the capacitor in place on its PC board for neater and more secure mounting. You can mount the capacitor using screw terminals even if your connection to the MRF-350 (or other device) uses the plug. Both connections are in parallel and both can be used simultaneously.

I used 47uF simply because I happened to have that value of capacitor lying around last night (yes, that’s what I was doing on Christmas night) when I was experimenting. I tried using two of them in parallel (that’s about like using a 100uF cap) but found no real improvement. Power supply issues are very difficult to measure though. What works in my installation might not completely resolve the problem in yours. That’s why I’d recommend using the 100, 10, 1 and .1 combo described earlier. That range of values provides the broadest protection. In production quantities, these parts are only a few cents each and UR should install them on EVERY product it makes in this line!

MY INSTALLATION
My house consists of two separate buildings. I recently built a home theater and consolidated my two DirecTV HR10 HDTV satellite receivers into a single location. One satellite is for my wife, the other is mine. We can watch either satellite from any television (7 televisions total). One of the televisions is in the second building, away from where the satellite receivers are. I had two problems: getting hi-def audio/video to that place and conveying the remote control signals. I already had several CAT-5 cables running between the buildings and two were available. To run more would have been very difficult and I’m lazy.

I chose an Audio Authority 9870 product to transfer all signals. This system includes a model 9871 driver that converts component video and analog audio into CAT-5 compatible signals. At the other end, a 9878 wallplate converts CAT-5 back to component video and analog audio. Each signal is carried over a separate wire pair in the CAT-5 cables. That’s 3 for component video, two for audio, and 1 for power. Two pairs remain unused and Audio Authority attaches them to a jack on each end for infrared remote control: Two wires are used for ground, 1 for +V and 1 for data.

If I could get the RFX-250 to work over the Audio Authority infrared circuit, I’d be in great shape. I was discouraged in reading this forum a few weeks ago when the idea first occurred. I read about the unreliable RF operation and widely varying experiences of people. I also read of people trying the jack connection and the wired connection, thinking one was better than the other. Other people talked about the need to use multiple wires for power and ground.

In a prior life I was an electronic design engineer in the casino business. I learned a long time ago that when a device suffered mysterious problems, you should first check the power supply. Because of the long wires involved, and because the RFX-250 got its power from long wires, I was doubly suspicious. I ended up speaking with Eric Johnson. He told me they had systems in their lab working over long wires but “out in the field, things are different”. I remembered how many times I thought that as a young engineer and how many times I heard young engineers tell me that when I became a manager. This reinforced my power supply suspicion.

In the end though, it was Eric’s enthusiasm, commitment of support and commitment to this board, that sold me to buy some UR equipment and give it a try. I was already a happy MX-950 user from my smaller system that I am now upgrading. I logged onto surfremotecontrol.com and ordered several RFX-250s, 3 additional MX-950s a MSC-400 and an MRF-350 to supplement the 2 MX-950s I already had.

I was struck by the frustration that several users described in working with this system and decided to take the engineering approach: proceed in small steps and measure everything. First I connected the MRF-350 and single RFX-250 together in the same room and made sure everything worked. Next I added in the Audio Authority system. Once everything worked in the same room, it was time to expand.

Before that though, I wanted to get some idea of what each device needed to be happy. I used an ammeter to measure current to the RFX-250. At idle, it was about 8ma. Next I measured the load at the MRF-350 by connecting the ammeter between the GND and DATA lines, which showed how much current is needed to reliably drive the signal line (1.8ma). I knew that since multiple RFX-250 devices could be connected, the system had to be “open collector”. In other words, the RFX-250 signals only to ground, not to +V. A pullup device inside the MRF-350 does that chore.

Next I opened the RFX-250 to see a single integrated circuit, a number of supporting surface mount capacitors and resistors, a couple of LEDs, a crystal and another device I did not recognize. I also saw a nicely laid-out PC board with a great ground plane. What I didn’t see though confirmed my power supply suspicions: no bulk decoupling capacitors of any kind! I knew my chances of getting a system to work were nearly 100% now.

The chip is a maxim MAX1473. A quick look at their website got me a PDF of the data sheet. It is an 315Mhz-433Mhz ASK Super heterodyne receiver chip. The part I did not recognize was an IF transformer. Essentially the MAX1473 is a glorified and miniaturized FM radio receiver adapted for narrowband data reception.

It is easy to be misled by the RFX-250 nomenclature. While the connector says RF out, it really isn’t Radio Frequency that is output. It is a digital signal. That’s important because the digital signal, at 1.8ma or thereabouts, is far less susceptible to noise than the RF antenna input. I was no longer worried about shielding on the wire.

I also measured the voltage output of the MRF-350 at 4.99 volts and knew that was a problem for long wire-runs. The Maxim data sheet shows the MAX1473 needs a 4.5 to 5.5 volt power supply. Since the MRF-350 starts with only 5 volts, that leaves on a 0.5 volt (500 millivolt) margin for voltage loss along the entire cable length. That’s not a lot of margin. Moreover, there could be variations from one MRF-350 to another. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that some put out 5.25 volts (giving more room for loss) or even 4.75 volts, giving far less margin for loss. Such tolerances are necessary for economical manufacturing but can partly account for why different users experience different results.

I set up a small spreadsheet to figure out my projected voltage loss across 600 feet of cable. (I know that my run is >500 feet and <600feet, and it is best to use the worst case scenario). CAT-5 cable uses 24 AWG wire, which has a resistance of .03 ohms/foot. At 600 feet x 2 (two wires, +5 and GND), total resistance is 36.24 ohms. I rounded up total current requirements to 15ma, to provide additional room for error. The voltage drop is R x I or 36.24 x .015 = 0.54 volts. That means I could expect to lose about 0.54 volts over the wire run. My MRF-350 supplies 4.99V – 0.54 = 4.45 volts—which is already below the lower limit of 4.5V. I decide to try it anyway because the number is close, I’ve overestimated the current (maybe), my run is < 600 feet and there are two wires in the Audio Authority ground link. I also know I am right on the edge though.

My CAT-5 run is in three stages. The first is about 100 feet from the satellite receivers. The second is 250 feet past there and the last stop is at the full 500+ feet. At each point there are female cat-5 connectors which are jumpered to the next segment. I decide to test at each stage and using a stock, unmodified MFX-250 to see what happens.

When everything was in the same room, I almost never saw a flicker of the RF light except when I pressed the remote. About 95 of 100 remote presses were acted upon properly. The remainder were simply lost. Even with line of sight, I occasionally experience a slow or lost command on the DirecTV units and didn’t think much about it.

At the 100 foot mark, everything still worked but only about 90 of every 100 commands get through. At the 350 foot point, the RF indicator was lighting and only 2 of 3 commands came through.

At the end point, no remote control commands would work at all. The RF light would flicker regularly. When I pressed a remote control button the RF light would illuminate and stay on for several seconds. Was there really that much interference in the room?

I installed my 47uF capacitor by simply sliding in the screw connector. The RF light activity dropped considerably but it still required careful placement in the room. If I was within five feet of the television (a brand-new Toshiba 56MX196), the RF light flickered continuously. Only about 1 in 2 remote commands were executed.

I removed the whip antenna from the MFX-250. The RF light turned off and the remote worked well over 90% of the time. Perhaps this proved that there was RF interference in the area but I still had doubts. I found a wall-wart 5V 200ma power adapter from an old piece of equipment and cut the connector off. I removed the capacitor from the screw plug and attached the +5V and GND from the adapter to the screw connector.

It is important to not connect two power supplies together, so I disconnected the +5V wire feeding from the MRF-350. Now I measured 5.05 volts into the MFX-250. I reattached the antenna and, WOW, everything seemed to work well. After that initial success I started moving the 250 closer to the TV. Surprisingly, the RF light came on again—not because I got closer to the TV but because the AC line from the power pack got tangled with the +5V power pack output. If such a coupling caused malfunction, I certainly didn’t have a reliable system. Then I remembered the decoupling capacitor I removed.

The power pack had six feet of wire on it—it still needed a capacitor. So I opened the MFX-250 and soldered the capacitor across the power inputs. (I could not get the capacitor leads and the power pack leads to reliably co-exist in the screw terminals and so I soldered the capacitor in place.

When the 250 was reconnected, everything worked beautifully. I got 100 of 100 remote presses detected. The only time the RF light flickered even a bit was when it was placed within 6 inches of the TV on the lower left side. I’ve only used this system for a few hours but it seems rock solid.

I’ve attached a second MFX-250 to the system for use in the other building but I installed a capacitor in it too. I also disconnected the +5V wire going to the 2nd building through that long run from the MRF-350 so it doesn’t pick up noise and cause unexpected problems.

I’ll let you know after another week of operation but right now things are great. The bottom line is: the UR system is a fine one that suffers from a lack of attention to the power supplies for the remote RF antennas. That can be readily fixed by UR and I certainly hope they do so. I’d also like to see UR offer a power pack for remote installs of MFX-250s across hundreds of feet of wire. UR could probably retail these devices for < $20.

In the meantime, you can greatly improve your MFX-250 performance by adding a capacitor to your power inputs on EACH MFX-250 regardless of wire length. You can also create your own long-range systems by adding an external 5v supply and decoupling capacitor. Just don’t forget to disconnect the +5V line at both the source (MRF-350, etc.) and the MFX-250.

Finally, I know this forum is for professional installers. And I know that UR is working hard to insure professional installers get paid a margin for their expertise. I ask both the members of this forum and UR to remember us end-users too though. While I am not a professional, I do try to be diligent in how I use the equipment. Please don’t cut guys like me out of the support loop. We need information and sometimes we can help you too.

John
John Acres
Post 2 made on Tuesday December 26, 2006 at 19:02
Dave E
Long Time Member
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282
Wow, Thanks John. This sounds simple enough and as long as the capacitors are on the outside, it should not affect the warranty. You could solder the capacitors to the power supply leads an inch back from the screw terminals. Should we use tantalum capacitors only or would another type work? Have you sent this to Eric?
If this works, you'll make a lot of people happy. Let us know in a week.


Now if you could work on increasing the RF range...
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.
Any wire cut to length will be too short.
I must be a near GENIUS. All my teachers told me I was at the very PEAK of the bell curve!
OP | Post 3 made on Tuesday December 26, 2006 at 19:17
learninght
Long Time Member
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18
Dave, the problem with decoupling capacitors is that every inch counts, especially for high frequency stuff. My choice was to either simply return the devices because they didn't work or modify so they would. I think the capacitor on the wires as you suggest is possibly OK but you can never be sure.

When I get around to it, I'm going to add 1uf and 10uf to the board. As to tantalum, that's just what I had around in non-surface mount format. If you use aluminum though, it might be best to throw in a 1uf for high frequency stuff to make sure.

There's really no good way to measure this stuff. Far better to use "best practice" and add one of each size as outlined as close to the consuming device as possible. Unfortunately you can only tell if it works by lack of problems. Even if my current single cap solution is OK, there may well be other situations where the three solve a problem the single cap would not.

I put in a call to Eric but he is probably on vacation today. I have zero doubt the lack of decoupling capacitance is cause of trouble. ANY capacitance added will help. Adding all three sizes and soldering them down onto he board will help the most.

I'm not too worried about warranty. These devices look to be nearly bulletproof. By adding the cap(s) they become far mroe reliable. I'll be interested to see what UR response is to this.

John
John Acres
Post 4 made on Tuesday December 26, 2006 at 19:56
Dave E
Long Time Member
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282
Does the Power supply need to be a regulated one or would any 5-5.5vdc wall wart work?
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.
Any wire cut to length will be too short.
I must be a near GENIUS. All my teachers told me I was at the very PEAK of the bell curve!
OP | Post 5 made on Tuesday December 26, 2006 at 20:35
learninght
Long Time Member
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The power supply must be regulated.
John Acres
OP | Post 6 made on Tuesday December 26, 2006 at 20:35
learninght
Long Time Member
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The power supply must be regulated. If your pack really puts out 5v to 5.5v, it is regulated.

Just be sure the supply doesn't put out >5.5V under any circumstance. The unregulated versions have a voltage that varies according to wall voltage and load. Don't use one of these.

If the supply is 4.5 - 5.5v under all circumstances though, it should be fine. The load is very light but the supply should be capable of 25ma minimum. I've never seen anything go below 100ma. In other words, practically speaking, you can use the smallest regulated supply you can find.

Something like the Mouser 552-PSA-A05A-050-R (5.15V 1A, 100mv ripple, 5% regulation) at $7.98 in single quantity should be fine.

DON'T FORGET TO DISCONNECT THE +5V FROM YOUR RECEIVER THOUGH!!!!
John Acres
Post 7 made on Wednesday December 27, 2006 at 13:38
Dave E
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282
Do you have any idea why "world class engineers" would leave out something so basic and simple as these capacitors? Or, would it be the "bean counters" that said, "cut that out to make it cheaper"?
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.
Any wire cut to length will be too short.
I must be a near GENIUS. All my teachers told me I was at the very PEAK of the bell curve!
OP | Post 8 made on Wednesday December 27, 2006 at 15:06
learninght
Long Time Member
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I don't work at UR, so I don't know their process or thinking. However, I suspect the problem comes from specialization. My engineering work started just as microprocessors came into use. Even with a digital focus, I learned a little about analog. Today's circuits are paradoxically more complex and simpler than ever before. It is nothing for a consumer circuit to use millions of transistors. A good PC can contain over a billion. Such complexity was unimaginable in the early 1970s.

Simultaneously, today's designs are done with building blocks. A part like the MAX1473 is a complex circuit that took man-years to develop and a sophisticated fabrication facility to build. But you could buy copies of it for only a dollar or so and download a complete application note from the Internet for free. That app note shows you exactly how to use the part. Very efficient.

The UR system is a good one in concept and, to a great extent, in implementation. Someone has really thought through the feature and price points for various remote control capabilities and they've made a variety of receivers for those remotes. Whomever chose the Maxim part for this application, in my opinion, made a good decision.

In today's subcontracting world, once a circuit design is created, it is often jobbed out to a vendor for packaging and production. Things like bulk capacitor decoupling are 'tweener issues--they fall somewhere between actual design of circuit function and simple packaging. Sometimes such 'tweener issues simply get forgotten. There's huge pressure for low cost products and speed to market. Manufacturers simply cannot know how well a product will be accepted and hence try to control spending. Speed to market is important because if you don't do it quickly, someone else will. The consumer market, even for products in the price range of this stuff, is a difficult one to prosper in.

Testing is usually done by a fixed test fixture. In the MFX-250 case, the device works just fine in clean environments with short wires. The original engineers probably rigged one up and tested over long wires in a fairly quiet environment and got good results. Heck, they might have even had the bulk capacitance on their proto boards. I simply don't know.

These things happen though and they are harder to guard against than you might think. It is not a reflection on the intelligence of the designer. I doubt it was a conscious cost-cutting decision either. The loss of functionality and perception of unreliability certainly outweighs the small savings. I founded a couple of companies in the gaming industry. I'm an engineer by trade. Reliability was our utmost concern. We cared tremendously. A typical sale price was several million dollars for a system. And we had this exact same issue crop up on one of our product elements. Slipups happen.

This problem isn't limited to UR though. I just returned a $1,000 HP scanner because its USB port implementation was so finicky, it could only work with a select few computers.

One thing's for sure: as products grow more complex, as consumer pressure drives prices downward and as we use more subcontractors to maintain efficient production, we'll see more problems like this.

Would I buy UP products again? Absolutely! I am pleased with the functionality and the innovation.

By the way, I'm on my third day of operation after adding the capacitors. All is working perfectly.
John Acres
OP | Post 9 made on Thursday December 28, 2006 at 18:31
learninght
Long Time Member
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It's been 3 days now and I've exercised the remote heavily with hundreds of presses, just looking for trouble. Not a single miss! And that's using a single Cat-5 cable pair at >500 feet. I'm pretty convinced this is a worthwhile mod.
John Acres
Post 10 made on Friday December 29, 2006 at 00:32
BNC-RCA-RG59
Long Time Member
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314
One pair?? Assuming you did this mod adding a remote power supply. WOW! So it would work on any twisted pair like 22-2 or 18-2? Does it have to be twisted? No Sheilding either? Let's say I had an extra RG-6 running to the base station? I'm only asking to prove a point. I know that everyone would like to believe Cat5e is the future proof wire. It can be, but as for a power supply issue, you must make the RF base station able to be powered remotely. Good find! Great job. I would make URC take the original base station off the shelf. And start adding this to fix the buggy RF issues. I mean, what if you had installed an MSC-400 and still had issues trasnmitting?

I'd be pissed too!

BNC
DON'T BE FRUSTRATED, GET INTEGRATED! (From a custom installer)
Post 11 made on Friday December 29, 2006 at 11:37
Glenn Gentilin
Universal Remote Control Inc.
Joined:
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June 2006
29
John,

Thanks for your work on this fix. As mentioned above, you will make alot of installers happy. Mostly, the insight on adding a local power supply to a remote antenna will be very useful in helping to create bullet proof installations. Please keep us informed as to any other findings.

Glenn
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!
OP | Post 12 made on Friday December 29, 2006 at 12:30
learninght
Long Time Member
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On December 29, 2006 at 00:32, BNC-RCA-RG59 said...
One pair?? Assuming you did this mod adding a remote power
supply. WOW! So it would work on any twisted pair like
22-2 or 18-2?

Larger wire means lower voltage drop and you should be able to run further without having to use a local power supply RFX-250. The other concern is capacitance of the wire pair you use. The lower the better. Cat-5e is well-specified. 18-2 wire is typically used for audio work and I am not at all familiar with their capacitance specifications.

Does it have to be twisted? No Sheilding
either? Let's say I had an extra RG-6 running to the base
station?

RG-6 should work just fine and over a much longer distance. RG-6 has only 1/10th the resistance per foot as a CAT-5 pair. Of course, RG-6 is expensive and bulky for new installs. In a new install, CAT-5 with a local power supply for the RFX-250 is probably cheaper--and you still have three unused pair remaining in the CAT-5 which could serve for carrying video (as I did) or Ethernet. But if you happen to have a cable in place, it'd be a great cable to use (I think, I have not tested it myself.

The RFX-250 uses an unbalanced output. The issue of unshielded or untwisted wire is a different matter and really depends on the noise in your environment. I wouldn't hesitate to use coax for a run. I'd be hesitant about anything else without understanding the cable and the environment it is run in.

I'm only asking to prove a point. I know that
everyone would like to believe Cat5e is the future proof
wire.

There's no such thing as a perfect cable. Each type has its place and that's why there are so many. The big advantage of CAT-5 is cost, diameter, flexibility and that it is so widely used. Lots of people are using it for purposes other than its original design intent. So long as we understand its advantages and limitations, that's fine. But for bulletproof installs, the characteristics of the devices and the cable medium need to be understood and respected.

It can be, but as for a power supply issue, you
must make the RF base station able to be powered remotely.

Unless you can be certain of the environment, I'd use a local power supply for any RFX-250 installed over long wire runs. How long is long? I'd hesitate to use more than 100 feet of CAT-5 and maybe 200 feet of RG-6. Those are simply guesses. The point is this: an RFX-250 at ten feet does not need a separate power supply. An RFX-250 at 600 feet does. Where the cutoff is depends on the circumstances. I want bulletproof operation, so I'll use local power supplies for longer runs. That completely removes one variable.

Please remember, it is ESSENTIAL to use the decoupling capacitor at the RFX-250, even when it is only 10 feet away. I saw real examples of improper operation without the added capacitor at even a ten foot distance. The malfunction shows up as the RF light flickering on and off or simply staying on for long periods. Installer naturally think it is an RF problem. In most cases, it is simply an issue of power supply that a decoupling capacitor cures.

Last edited by learninght on December 29, 2006 19:07.
John Acres
Post 13 made on Friday December 29, 2006 at 13:14
Eric Johnson
Universal Remote Control Inc.
Joined:
Posts:
May 2001
705
Hi John,

We are very appreciative for your work on this. I wasn't able to record your phone number from your voice message earlier this week, so feel free to give me a call when you can.

To everyone else, we are still testing John's ideas. We will post when we have more field results. Please email me if any of you try to use a decoupling capacitor on your jobs.

Best Regards,

-Eric

Last edited by Eric Johnson on December 29, 2006 13:25.
Best Regards,
Eric
OP | Post 14 made on Tuesday January 2, 2007 at 07:58
learninght
Long Time Member
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18
After a full week of operation, the capacitor fix and separate power supply continues to work well. I used the DirecTV guide screen as a test by scrolling up and down. I tried at least 100 keypresses each day for the past week. It is easy to watch the guide and see if the select bar moves with each command or not.

On five of the days I got 100% response. One day I missed one command. On the other day I lost three.

The problem could be with the DirecTV box, the remote, the RF linkage, the IR emitter on the DirecTV receiver or simple operator (that'd be me) counting error. In any case the error rate is too low to make it worth pursuing further.

I'm satisfied that these mods work and will not continue to overtly test the system further.
John Acres
Post 15 made on Tuesday January 2, 2007 at 12:45
JonW747
Active Member
Joined:
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September 2006
621
Using a seperate power supply might lead to other problems depending on the installation (aka ground loops). Adding a bulk capacitor is a solid idea, and if you're talking something more then 20uF then I would think it'd be fine installed in the terminal blocks.
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