Do any equipment makers provide discrete codes for 'mute-on' and 'mute-off'? Although all my devices have discrete power codes, none of them seem to have discrete mute codes. Weird.....

Yes, some do...what is your device? Otherwise, you might be able to work around the issue, is there a command that always unmutes the audio? That way you could send that command, then the mute command to know for sure that the audio is muted.

The higher end Yamaha recievers do. I don't believe most components have that, though.

A lot of electronics have a work around for mute on and mute off. Most have a mute as a toggle button but the volume up turns the mute off.

Volume Up or Down will often cancel the Mute status on TVs and Receivers. You will have to try it on the device you are working with; if this works, then the workaround noted above should solve the problem without a discrete.

With Panasonic TVs I use the following workaround for a lack of discrete muting:

Mute OFF -- Volume-down, Volume-up

Mute ON -- Volume-down, Volume-up, mute

But the original question was prompted by the observation that some devices which have discrete power codes do not have discrete mute codes. Am I the only one who thinks this is an oversight?

Oversight is a little bit of a strong statement given that it will only be necessary for the .001% of install. Afterall, in most cases if someone presses mute they know by default that pressing it again will result in an unmute.

It's also safe to assume the requirement for discrete mute on/off is for funky programming involving less than ideal situations.

Many of the devices which have discrete mute on and off are only available via 232...like the Knox matrix switch I'm working with now. So if you can't find it ini the IR protocol dig deeper and look into the serial, which of course would require the use of an msc-400 if you are using URC remotes.

All the new Yamaha's have descrete mute on and off. Even the $200 RX-V363. Yamaha has descretes for just about every function on every AV product they make. but the real question (as Matt asked) is, what device are you asking about?

Panasonic.

I'm not sure I understand your argument. The same thing could be said of power codes.
(...In most cases if someone presses POWER they know by default that pressing it again will reverse the action.) Discrete codes assure that the device can be correctly operated remotely regardless of its current state. For example, you might have a macro which mutes the TV speakers temporarily when adjusting a receiver. Things could get out of sync here just as they do with power toggles.

Admittedly, the mute function is not a big thing. I was simply curious about devices that offer discrete codes for some toggle functions but not others. Ignore the thread if you regard the issue as trivial.

When did I say it was trivial, don't be so defensive. But I'm correct, however, because Power state is important in ALL installs for ALL activity based macros. Muting a TV when someone has surround is not normal in the CI world because we would never use TV speakers. And afterall you didn't even mention you were talking about a TV in your original post so how could anyone know? Furthermore I provided a tip on how to find discretes for mute on/off via 232...you will rarely (dare I say never) see it in IR, especially for a TV.

Sorry if I sounded defensive. And my example was a poor one, since it involved the TV (ugh!) speakers.

However, you didn't address the basic question I raised, which is: Why would a device manufacturer (who has no particular prior knowledge of the total system in which it will be installed) provide discrete codes for SOME functions, but not others? If the TV has built-in speakers, presumably the maker anticipates they will be used.

Awww, forget it...

All Integra receivers have mute discrete IR codes as well. I also have an old Pioneer Elite receiver that has discrete mute IR codes. Don't know about the current models. I have never seen them for a tv unless as mentioned you go to rs232.

If the manufacturer goes "whole hog" on providing discrete codes, then chances are they'll cover mute as well. But if a manufacturer is only planning on doing the essential basics - power and inputs - then it's unlikely that anything else will be covered, never mind mute specifically.

Look how many TVs lack discrete picture mode or screen format modes (or at least COMPLETE discretes) when I'm sure a lot of installers would find those even more practical than "mute off".

Marantz receivers seem to have discrete mute, and so do Velodyne subs.

TV's are video displays. Generally speaking, if you have a receiver, you would only use the surround sound system and therefore would not need the TV speakers AT ALL, therefore not needing to mute the TV speakers because they would be disconnected. If you don't have a receiver, you WOULD use the TV speakers, and discrete muting functions are rediculous. TweeterGuy's right, .001% of installs would benefit. Workaround's are #1 - Use 2 inputs on your TV, one with audio and one without. #2 - some sort of relay system or something along those lines to kill TV sound, or #3 - don't use the TV speakers like the other 99.999% of installs. This, of course, is all regardless of the obvious TV muting workarounds.