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Topic:
MX810
This thread has 86 replies. Displaying posts 46 through 60.
Post 46 made on Monday October 15, 2007 at 17:02
RonL
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2003
235
On October 11, 2007 at 04:28, RHT1 said...
MX-810 again...
The fact that the MX-810 can run indefinitely because
the power supply cord plugs directly into the remote is
a HUGE BONUS because it will make our non-stop TV-watching
addicts very happy. If plugged in, their remote will never
"die".
The fantastic color display puts this remote at the very
top of the "easy to see" list.

The remote is very light weight which is another huge
plus.
The hard button "soft click" feedback is classy and not
at all annoying.
The audible beeps are very clean sounding... not your
typical, horrible, cheep screech.
Adjustable beep volume = excellent.
Adjustable color screen brightness = excellent
Tilt switch on/off button = excellent

URC managers have been telling us in these forums that
the upcoming MX-980 is "The Remote" that will satisfy
the highly skilled programmers among us. Perhaps it will,
in terms of software, but I personally feel, as a past
Human Factors Engineer for Northrop Grumman, that the
physical design of the MX-810 is FAR SUPERIOR to the upcoming
MX-980 design.

In fact, I love the physical design of the MX-810 so much
that I am going to keep it, even though I cannot get it
to work anything. I just love looking at it, holding it
in my hand and dreaming about how great life would be
if I could one day program it successfully.

URC, we love you. My advice is to scrap the outdated looking,
poorly laid out MX-980 and put it's software into the
magnificent MX-810. If you do, you won't be able to supply
the World with enough of them. I Guarantee it.

I agree with this post. I don't understand why the superior design (MX-810) was given inferior software.
Post 47 made on Monday October 15, 2007 at 19:20
Joe-CI
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
183
On October 15, 2007 at 09:01, justarep said...
Get some nailpolish and paint it red...

Now your select button is hidden.

I may sound a little ridiculous, but I try to program for the dumbest person in the room.
Support Your Local Dealer.
Stop Buying From the Online Guy and Ebay.
Post 48 made on Saturday October 20, 2007 at 11:33
KCThirstyEar
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2003
551
RHT1, & Joe-CI...I respectfully disagree with your opinion of the 810. For the most part, the layout is okay, but I really don't like the "Activities/Devices" layout, as opposed to the "Watch/Listen" For the end user The Watch/Listen is more logical and flowing. I don't usually have to explain the Watch button to somebody, but I would have to explain Activites and Devices to Clients. Probably every time. I have also included a "Devices" section on almost every remote I have ever programmed. Very few clients of mine ever use it; some don't even know it's there. The record button, in my opinion, is also a waste of hard button space, as there's usually only one current device (DVR) that utalizes it, and most people have timer and such set up, so even there it's not used all that frequently. Therefore, when using other sources such as DVD, or CD, or XM Radio, or something, it's just a useless button. As has already been mentioned, the real sufferage of the 810 comes in attempting to program it. It actually hurts to program. Overall, I find this remote to be a poor example of what URC is capable of, however the 980 is a really, REALLY nice remote, and I prefer it in every way to the 810, and actually to everything that URC has done to date. This is of course all personal opinion and preference.
KC
Audio Artisans
Post 49 made on Saturday October 20, 2007 at 12:45
Darnitol
Universal Remote Control Inc.
Joined:
Posts:
June 1999
2,070
On a personal note, not speaking for URC, this thread reminds me of a business anecdote I learned about perhaps a decade ago.

One of the major American auto manufacturers (I don't recall which for certain, but I think it was Chrysler, and I am pretty sure this story was in reference to the creation of the PT Cruiser) was having lackluster sales across their product line. Their business model required that they take customer polls to determine which of their vehicle concepts would move from mock-up to the showroom floor. They knew that you can't please all the people all the time, so what they looked for in making this decision was for a concept car to get an average customer rating of 5-7 out of 10.

After extensive research into their poor sales numbers, they figured out that the way they were interpreting the poll data was causing their problems. By seeking a mid-range number, they were creating cars that were appealing to many people, but they were just average, "5-7 out of 10" designs. Someone very smart in the organization convinced them to instead look at the polarity in the data, not the average of it.

The result was that the manufacturer started looking for concept cars that received very split ratings: very strong weighting towards "I love it" and towards "I hate it!" Specifically, they started looking for designs that had very few customer opinions anywhere in the 4-7 range. Why? Because the polarized data meant that people either loved it or hated it, but... the end result is that cars with mid-range scores evoked no passion in buyers, so those cars tended to sell mostly to utilitarian drivers.

But the designs that evoked polarized responses had such strong responses on the "I love it" end of the scale, that the "I love it" people bought more cars than the utilitarian-minded drivers of the average-scoring cars.

Sales increased, and other auto manufacturers took note. We've all noticed that automotive designs have gotten more adventurous in the last decade. There are tons of cars on the road that you absolutely hate, and a few that you absolutely love.

In my opinion, the moral of the story is that the best products are not designed to meet the needs or desires of the broadest possible group of consumers. The best products are designed to meet a specific need or passion very, very well.

Again, I'm not speaking for URC here; I've been a member of this forum years longer than I've worked for URC. But personally, I'm happy to see that the MX-810 and ProWizard are evoking strong reactions.

ProWizard was designed to reach a particular goal, and the software helps you get there quickly with minimal training. If you're okay with that goal, the MX-810 is an amazing bottleneck reliever that lets you take on more jobs with your existing staff. We're getting ecstatic reactions from those dealers.

But dealers who have their own goal in mind (generally very well-thought-out solutions that they've grown accustomed to providing for their customers) will be very frustrated indeed if they try to make ProWizard arrive at that predetermined goal. I liken it to a highly skilled American football player stepping onto a European rugby field for the first time without being given the chance to learn, or practice, the new rules. Sure, you're highly skilled, and the game is similar, but ultimately, the rules and goal are different. Once you learn to play by the different rules, you will become a skilled and experienced player at both games.

And yes, that polarity I mentioned above means that some dealers are naturally going to dislike the alternate choice. But if reactions at trade shows and in orders taken are any indication, the MX-810 is going to have quite a following. It's not "right" or "wrong" to see the MX-810 as a good solution for your customers: it's just a matter of your own preferences, experience, and programming style as dictated by the needs of your clients.

If the MX-810 doesn't fit into your model, take a look at our other products. Our development efforts are driven by installers' needs; there's a very good chance that we've got something now, or coming very soon, in the category you're looking for.

My apology for the very long post, and best regards,
Dale
I'm a member of the Remote Central community, just like you! My comments here are my own, and in no way express the opinions, policies, or plans of Universal Remote Control, Inc.
Post 50 made on Saturday October 20, 2007 at 16:15
Joe-CI
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
183
Polarity is good if you're a Republican trying to ensure a presidential victory or if you are the Howard Stern show where you get both sides to watch for different reasons.

Polarity due to poor software design, IMO, is not the same.

Correctly interpreting dealer and customer feedback is very important.

We can discuss hard buttons, placement and remote shape, but the software implementation is very weak and very overpriced.

Support Your Local Dealer.
Stop Buying From the Online Guy and Ebay.
Post 51 made on Sunday October 21, 2007 at 03:09
GregoriusM
RC Consultant
Joined:
Posts:
December 1999
9,807
According to you.
When ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.
Post 52 made on Sunday October 21, 2007 at 13:29
Joe-CI
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
183
Do an MX810 search and you will see I am no longer the only one?

We can disagree Greg, but let's not pretend I am the only one.
Support Your Local Dealer.
Stop Buying From the Online Guy and Ebay.
Post 53 made on Sunday October 21, 2007 at 23:35
Bubby
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2007
942
On October 20, 2007 at 12:45, Darnitol said...
| The result was that the manufacturer started looking for
concept cars that received very split ratings: very strong
weighting towards "I love it" and towards
"I hate it!"


ProWizard was designed to reach a particular goal, and
the software helps you get there quickly with minimal
training. If you're okay with that goal, the MX-810 is
an amazing bottleneck reliever that lets you take on more
jobs with your existing staff. We're getting ecstatic
reactions from those dealers.

And yes, that polarity I mentioned above means that some
dealers are naturally going to dislike the alternate choice.
But if reactions at trade shows and in orders taken are
any indication, the MX-810 is going to have quite a following.
It's not "right" or "wrong" to see the MX-810 as a good
solution for your customers: it's just a matter of your
own preferences, experience, and programming style as
dictated by the needs of your clients.

So how does "love the remote" but "hate the software" fit into URC's plan?

So Prowizard was developed for a certain demo in mind. Who was the 810 designed for? Why do they have to be connected at the hip? It seems that URC is limiting the 810 to only those dealers who are willing to learn how to program it. That should go over well with end users.

The 810 probably will have a nice following. It is a very well laid out remote. But why is URC leaving many sales on the table by connecting the 810 to Prowizard?
OP | Post 54 made on Sunday October 21, 2007 at 23:43
Eastside A/V
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2006
1,782
finally have the remote working properly for my parents system (testing before I recommend it to customers). Albeit, almost everything was programmed manually, learned, transferred/imported, and then macro'ed manually within the browser section of the software. I will be trying again from scratch later on this week with one of my home systems to see if there has been any improvement, in the software (though I think I am better off going for broke manual style); however my first go around I plan to try to start with the templates I have already created for their system, and then begin modifing to work with my system. My biggest concern is that I don't think aliasing is possible, which means instead of just relearning the codes to one location, I will have to do it to multiple locations and then drag and drop all the codes into the activities section as they do not load when programming the remote. Crossing my fingers!
Bryan Levy
www.eastsideav.com
Gallery: [Link: eastsideav.com]
Post 55 made on Sunday October 21, 2007 at 23:57
GregoriusM
RC Consultant
Joined:
Posts:
December 1999
9,807
On October 21, 2007 at 13:29, Joe-CI said...
Do an MX810 search and you will see I am no longer the
only one?

We can disagree Greg, but let's not pretend I am the only
one.

I know you aren't the only one, Joe. You just seem to be the most vocal about it. And hey, you're talking to Mr. Vocal when he sees something he doesn't like that he knows could easily be fixed or within reason.

So, we're no doubt more the same than different. :-)

I'm just saying that there seems to be two camps here, as Darnitol said. The love-it camp, and the hate-it camp, or ones who are tending towards those camps.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better for some than it is for others. Yes.

That being said, I've read your posts and do agree that it does need to be worked on to get it better at doing what it is intended to do.

I've never been a wizard lover. I am at this moment trying to think of ANY wizard that I've liked better than getting more into the guts of the program.

Again, I'm just saying that there are wizard lovers out there.

Wierd, but true! ;-)
When ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.
Post 56 made on Monday October 22, 2007 at 09:12
Darnitol
Universal Remote Control Inc.
Joined:
Posts:
June 1999
2,070
First: again, I'm speaking as a guy who loves control systems and a member of Remote Central, not as a spokesperson for URC. I'm nowhere near the level at URC where I could speak for the company.

To answer an earlier question:

ProWizard was not "attached" to the MX-810. The operating system of the remote was designed side by side with ProWizard from day one. This remote isn't an offshoot of any of our previous products--it's a whole new architecture. As such, there are things going on inside the OS of the MX-810 that MX-Editor wouldn't know how to control, like power state tracking and session awareness. (Yes, sophisticated programmers can create these functions within MX-Editor, but then, the point of the MX-810 is to allow your field installers to program single-room systems without tying up your more experienced programmers.)

So as to the "Love the remote, hate the software" question, the answer to that is simple: MX-810 and ProWizard are a single product, so your opinion of that product should be formed on the basis of the whole package. We're confident that the dealer feedback that led to the creation of the MX-810 represents a large enough section of the installer market to warrant this product. Early sales indicate we're on target. We knew there would be a vocal camp who didn't like ProWizard. But again, we're not trying to make every product we create fit the needs of every installer, differentiated only by feature level and price point.

The MX-810 isn't appropriate for every install. That's why we have a full product line. However, we do think that the MX-810 is appropriate for most installers, when it's sold and programmed with its original goal in mind.

Best regards,
Dale
I'm a member of the Remote Central community, just like you! My comments here are my own, and in no way express the opinions, policies, or plans of Universal Remote Control, Inc.
Post 57 made on Monday October 22, 2007 at 09:22
Bubby
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2007
942
On October 22, 2007 at 09:12, Darnitol said...
So as to the "Love the remote, hate the software" question,
the answer to that is simple: MX-810 and ProWizard are
a single product, so your opinion of that product should
be formed on the basis of the whole package.

Thanks for the response.

So it seems the 810 will be that extremely hot ex-girlfriend who you dumped because she was stupid.
Post 58 made on Monday October 22, 2007 at 17:26
Joe-CI
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
183
Just an additional note, Greg. I am assuming that Dale is going by Survey feedback and Dealer feedback and forum feedback.

We all know that people generally do not comment unless they are extreme. To discount the middle ground or undecided is a bad move. The goal is to get the middle ground pushed your way. It would be like listening to the top and bottom standard deviation. You still have 2/3 of your data set missing in a normal data set.

Yes, we probably are more simlar than not, but I don't want to be the nice guy who does not clearly state his objections to a product or business practices.
Support Your Local Dealer.
Stop Buying From the Online Guy and Ebay.
Post 59 made on Monday October 22, 2007 at 18:05
Gorignak
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2005
63
On October 22, 2007 at 17:26, Joe-CI said...
...but I don't want to be the nice guy who does not clearly state his
objections to a product or business practices.

That's understandable. But did you ever consider being the nice guy who DOES state his objections? I mean, why all the ire? If you don't like the thing, just don't sell it. That speaks much louder than any pissed-off "I'm an extremist" post you could ever brew.

Sincerely,
Gorignak
Post 60 made on Monday October 22, 2007 at 18:29
Darnitol
Universal Remote Control Inc.
Joined:
Posts:
June 1999
2,070
Again, I want to be clear that I'm not speaking for URC. And the business anecdote I mentioned is a favorite of mine, not a corporate principle. However, I do believe that reaching for people's passions, not their middle-ground "yeah, I guess this is pretty good" acceptance, is the way to make products truly appealing. The result is passion, and it tends to be extreme. Joe and Bubby are on the negative side, and we fully expected there to be a vocal group of installers who see ProWizard as a bad thing. Of course we wish they were on board with the idea behind the product, but we knew from the start that we can't please everyone.

I'm not saying the software is flawless. No software is. Further, this is the first release of ProWizard. Over time, constructive feedback will help us make it do its intended job better and better. But its intended job is not to fit into the MX-Editor model. You end up crippling your own efforts if you try to make it do that. ProWizard guides you to a particular architecture for the end product (typically a one-room system with 24 or fewer components), based on the "Activities and Devices" UI model. If that architecture fits your client's needs, then MX-810 may be the right remote for that client. But if it doesn't fit your client's needs, we have every other product in our line to work with, and not a wizard to be found (well, except the Favorite Channel Tool on the MSC-400).

MX-810 may not be the product you personally want to sell, but believe me, the prospect of never having to turn down a job because your more-experienced programmers are over-booked led many installers to ask for this very solution.

Best regards,
Dale
I'm a member of the Remote Central community, just like you! My comments here are my own, and in no way express the opinions, policies, or plans of Universal Remote Control, Inc.
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