Thanks for he reply, my feelings are the same. Contruction set was designed to simply confuse any annoy the hell out of you. We have a few secret weapons for learning new component codes(Thanks Don H.) but this is of course top secret cia sh@t. But for some reason i can't figure out how to save custom templates so i don't have to redo all my cs stuff every time i have to rebuild in setup. Bottom line is that my job is to keep everyone happy for jus a little while longer. It the frickin' things would just break then we could look at other options. This has become my personal little war. Don if you are out there throw us a bone man. Just give us a few tips. Key groups, writing new .dll files we need your help. IR .cap files how the standard and user defined data base works. Source code. We got guy's that could do wonderful things with that too. Why not it's about time for open source. Never know who's reading or who can pass this on. Share already With Love