Sonos probably gives discounts to Microsoft employees because that makes many little bits of the entire company have a positive attitude about Sonos, which generalizes to a good attitude from the company itself. Since Sonos uses software and connects to computers, that's a good thing. For them. And they don't care about anyone else.
On June 9, 2013 at 01:14, bcf1963 said...
So, if they were worth less, this would be ok? Because they are well to do, they should pay more?
You're a sleaze dealer if you do this. If they're well-to-do jerks, then things will end up costing more because they're jerks, so just let it be at that!
Now, I'm a reasonable person. If I think I'm getting something in return for paying more, I may decide to do so. But, with the margin you make on Sonos, what special service would I receive?
Installation alone is not enough to stay in business. If you pay me even the slight profit that's in Sonos when I sell it, the special service you get next year is ME because I'll know you understand what I must do, and because I'm still in business, or because I'm not magically busy every time you call, doing, or heck, even planning, work for someone who will allow me to make the money needed to stay in business.
I think the business model of most of the CI's here is failing. There is so little money to be made on most TV's, receivers, Sonos, etc, why not scrap the old business model, and sidestep the issue entirely? Why not just sell your services, as an installer / integrator, and if they can get the equipment somewhere else more cheaply let them.
Because once you touch it, it's yours. And it doesn't matter how much you tell them you're not liable, every issue is a battle. That itself lowers profit == lowering ability to stay in business == getting me on the phone in a year.
Just make them sign an agreement that it must be the exact model you contracted to install, and if you show up and it is wrong, they will pay for travel time, and some amount of hourly rate? This puts it on them if they want to shop for all the items, or wish to buy from you. This allows you to sell what your real product is.
An Ernie Adage: Every time someone says "just" or "only," they are about to omit seventeen facts crucial to the situation. In this case you omit the visible offense taken by clients who are presented with such an agreement.
As has been said many times, my real product is a system.
Car salesmen love to talk about how much of a monthly payment the car will be, as it gets the customer away from knowing what the true total is. Anyone buying a car knows how slimy a tactic this is. Yet most of the CI's here seem to think there is noting wrong with this tactic when discussing an install with your customers.
Well, this metaphor falls apart as soon as youi combine "montly" and "CI." How do we do that? What monthly is the parallel here?
Put yourself in their shoes. They don't necessarily know if you are great at what you do. (How would they? They're not a pro at this.) They don't know how trustworthy you are. So many will turn to the only place they have to determine if they are getting a decent rate, the internet.
And all our clients believe everything they read on the internet?
So you've put them in this position,
I put them in what position? On the internet? I know that's not what you mean, but hey, how did I put them in any position?
where they then have to doubt if your rates on the equipment are so high, are your rates for the install overpriced as well?
Installs have rates, hourly. What are these rates (x PER y) for equipment that you bring up here?
In the end, if you educate the consumer, they'll be willing to pay a fair price.
Why? They can see it for less on the internet. I see nothing you've said to support your conclusion.
Pricing the goods separately, and offering them separately from your services serves to inform the customer of what you do, how much time it takes, and what the true cost is. Why wouldn't more here want to do this, unless you don't think what you do is really worth what you'd have to charge?
We are in the business of selling completed things, not skeletons, guts and labor. You'd have us convince someone they want a dog by listing the bones, the innards, and the cost -- I mean price* --of getting God to say "Live."
I'm sure I'll get flamed by several here.
I don't see why. You have some pretty well-thought-through opinions, but I think you don't understand our positions or how things must work so we can keep on being there.
*Cost is what I buy it for. Price is what I sell it for. The difference is gross profit, which pays for whatever is not covered by the labor charges.
On June 9, 2013 at 07:52, BobL said...
No flame here and you are correct in many ways.
See?
We stopped selling TVs several years ago but we specialize in projectors so it has never been our main focus
yuk yuk
I hear very frequently what is the lowest price 60" TV or whatever size. They also choke on smaller TVs that the cost to install it is more than the TV cost. The shift from looking at quality has been replaced by price as the main object of the consumer. You have to try an educate them but that is getting tougher with so many consumers focused on price.
Here I agree with bcf: educate the customer. "Gee, isn't it cool that the price of TVs has come down so much since they make them by the millions, even though the time needed to mount a TV in your location has hardly varied? At least there's an ongoing change in something, that brings lower price to part of the purchase!"
I do think CIs need a better business model but the labor only model will be tough for many consumers to swallow. Especially, if it turns into charging for phone consults like lawyers do. Call and ask me what you should buy for equipment and that 15 minute phone call is billable.
Exactly.
The internet is not going away and something we have to live with. Our company just dropped what used to be a CI speaker company for having to price match AVS on a couple 5 figure speaker system. The problem is to price match we had to subtract out the state tax and made only a few hundred dollars on these systems. One had a bad subwoofer and we ate the shipping cost to return it to get it repaired. We should have just let AVS sell it to them and let the customer deal with it. But, that is never good relations nor good service.
I suppose you should now explain to the customer how good you are: how much it would have cost them if they had bought from the other company. There was a bad sub -- extra labor for you. You would have had to ship it -- extra labor for you. You would have had to reinstall it -- extra labor for you. You should point out that if they had bought it from you at your price, to begin with, you would have solved all the problems without him knowing about it.
It is easy to say just charge the labor for install but until consumers are ready for higher priced labor rates I'm not sure how well it will be accepted. I'm definitely open to suggestions for business models.
Oh, yeah: Here's your labor rate if I supply it, and here's your rate if I don't. What customer is not going to hate that?
