There is so much wrong in your analysis and your trouble shooting technique that I haven't the patience to point it out.


It has been stated more times than I can count that the system does not work as you surmise. HDMI repeaters to not function as network repeaters taking in a signal and regenerating it bit for bit. In some cases, the AVR may regenerate 5v signal. In very few does it re-clock.

You theorize that there is no signal loss when the signal is run through a AVR. Wrong. Every connection point and every device extracts some signal loss. As in everything, simplify. You think you understand but you don't. You bring in keys but the keys don't matter? Not to the way the high speed data is transmitted. Taken to it's logical limits your argument would suggest that 127 different data streams would be sent if a source supported all 127 keys and a matrix existed that could send source to 127 sinks. The presence of the repeater in this system serves to obfuscate the data.

HDMI is a system. If you have a system that is on the borderline of working and add one more variable you push it into failure. It has zero to do with your theories. The best description of this is to use DPL ratings. If you need a 3 to have a working system and you have a product that is a 4 and one that is a 2 you have a working system. What if you add an other device that is a 2 to the system? You've introduced failure to the system and none of your musings on encryption will be of any help. Your short cable, the AVR itself may be introducing the failure and it may have zero to do with "signal retransmission."


What if your system is on the edge of working because you are using 50' cable with a 1080i source. Adding one more variable -cable, or device will brings you into failure? Secondly, there will be issues caused by heat that will end add capacitance to the system and cause failure. What of other types of repeaters? HDMI splitters, HDMI switches? Do these KSVs "retransmit" the signal too? But what is "retransmission?" Brent has informed us that in many cases it's restoring only the voltage and this by it self will not fix loss issues.

See sparkles? The issue is probably on the high speed data bus. Keep a restorer in your tool bag and add it to the system. Try it after the AVR. Try it before the AVR. Try putting 2 into the system, before and after the AVR. Does the system work? Where it works may tell you what is causing your problem, as if a CI will care much having finally fixed it.

Bob has already pointed out that many AVRs demand the full specification of 5v ( 4.7 -5v ) where displays are more tolerant. The problem is really the source and the fact that the AVR's designers took the specification seriously and designed their HDMI input around this fact. So running the cable directly from source to display may only tell you that the display will tolerate the badly designed source device whereas the AVR will not. Putting the restorer between source and AVR will fix this. Mightn't this explain the issue without resorting to the nonsense of how the data is encrypted or if it's retransmitted?

What would happen if the issue is really bad HDMI circuit design in the display? Again, you were in the standard deviation at 50 ft but adding 50.5 ft introduces issues; adding one more connector to the system introduces that much more capacitance to the system. An other display and it works fine. It has zero to do with what the AVR does or does not do.

Brent has suggested that no passive HDMI cable over 6m ever be used. Then there is the amount of data being carried over that cable. There is a lot less data in a cable box outputting a 480P signal so see what happens if you send a lower resolution signal down that cable . Does the system work? The amount of data/distance matters. Again, your eye pattern might just work at 50' for 1080P but not at 50.1 ft. Reduce the amount of data and voila, the system works.

If your argument had any weight and a repeater regenerating the signal was the critical factor, would not the AVR being in the system solve these problem rather than exacerbate it? Haven't you passed so much gas arguing that the presence of the KSVs prove the AVR regenerates the signal? Thus the AVR ought to be a solution to the high speed data bus issues much as signal restorers would be? But the OP is telling us that he has sparkles. The AVR hasn't fixed them but you've "proven" that AVRs will regenerate the signal. Is the only thing that matters is a solid positive and negative voltage? What of skew or timing issues? What of clock issues?

The best way to deal with HDMI is with the system analogy. Signal loss is added by connectors, by distance, by heat and by the number and type of devices in the system. If you only sell products with DPL ratings and keep them to devices with ratings of 4 or better you're lowering failure factors. Any time your system has a DPL value lower than 3 you should expect failure. Second, you never use a passive cable with a length greater than 6m. If you have to exceed 25-30 ft you use an active solution. Then there is the problem,(thank you, Bob ) of out of specification HDMI circuitry, particularly cable boxes that the AVR will not accept.

What we can be fairly certain of is that the problem has nothing to do with how the KSVs are being used, their used in encrypting/decrypting the high speed data stream, or if the AVR "retransmits" the signal.

Capacitance, inductance and resistance will create issues and these are cumulative in the system. Devices themselves create issues, particularly the design of the HDMI circuit. The amount of data being transmitted makes a difference. The way the cable was run makes a difference. The amount and severity of the cable bends makes a difference.

Edit: removed unnecessary and unhelpful comments

Alan